Correspondence with Joe the Skinhead

A Madcap 'Aryan Warrior' Seeks Birdman's Death for His Views on Pedophilia

Birdman's views on pedo are found HERE, and one of the essays in that file was the apparent trigger for Joe the Skinhead's initial letter. Joe's letters were originally reproduced in that file, but became so voluminous that they have now been placed by themselves in this one.

 

Birdman Challenged to a 'Duel to the Death' Over Pedophilia

 

[Letter to Birdman from <joetheskinhead@hotmail.com>]

Mr. Bryant:

Your strident support of pedophilia is the latest example of the degeneracy infesting racialist circles. Instead of combating the insidious influence of the Jews and the traitorous government of the United States, you prefer to devote considerable time, energy, and expense to advancing a pedophilic agenda. This is unsurprising given the number of sexual deviants such as Kevin Strom, Anthony Pierpont, and Martin Lindstedt that one encounters in racialist circles. Nonetheless, we Aryan warriors will not stand idle while untermenschen like yourself utilize the National Socialist Movement as a vehicle for advancing their putrid agenda.

Sex with children is morally wrong and reprehensible. Children should not be having sex, much less with adults. They lack the maturity along with the mental and physical development for making informed decisions about sex. Society recognizes that children lack the requisite maturity to make certain decisions, which is why society does not permit children to vote or enter into contracts. A healthy society built on Aryan values would conduct public beheadings of degenerates that gratify their perverted inclinations by having sex with children. A healthy Aryan society would protect the most vulnerable against pernicious individuals that seek to harm children.

If you possessed a modicum of common sense or the slightest mental inclination that was not directed towards children, you would know that medical and psychiatric journals contain ample evidence conclusively demonstrating that children suffer irreparable harm because of sexual abuse by adults. You accuse your opponents of failing to substantiate their claim that sexual contact with adults traumatizes children. As the one making the ludicrous claim that children often enjoy sex with adults, the burden is on you to provide factual support to buttress your assertion. Thus far, you have failed to provide even a scintilla of evidence to back up your absurd contention.

Because I am an Aryan Knight that abides by the true warrior code of Skinheads, which demands that I protect Aryan women and children from evil, I am challenging you to a duel. I demand that you either recant your beliefs or fight me to the death in single combat. True Aryan warriors settle their disputes by the strength of their arms. Your website is replete with references to war and manly ways of resolving disputes. Now is the time for you to demonstrate your manliness and testicular fortitude by fighting to the death. Seeing that you are a keyboard warrior and weakling, I do not expect you to accept my challenge, which is why I am forwarding this letter throughout the racialist community. That way, the entire racialist community will see that you are a wimp, which is why you target children.

The duel will take place outside the Red Dragon at noon on Saturday February 24, 2007. The Red Dragon is located at 2116 Lynndale Ave South in Minneapolis, MN. Please let me know within forty-eight hours of receiving this message whether you accept my challenge.

Heil Hitler!!! Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of ZOG

 

[Birdman responds]

Dear Joe the Skinhead:

Sitting here in the cockpit of thebirdman.org I don't get many letters that qualify as genuinely funny, but yours definitely does. I mean really, challenging someone to a DUEL? And over a POLITICAL ISSUE? Or to put it another way, if I had screwed your wife -- should you have one, which most pimply-faced hakenkreutzers don't, and you sound like you qualify as the latter -- then a dueling challenge might at least make sense from the standpoint of the violent and barely civilized culture of 200 years ago where women were men's property, and where men (or at least the German upper class) 'proved' themselves by acquiring a dueling scar or two. (If you recall the James Bond movie in which the face of 'Number One' was finally revealed to viewers, you may recall the deep cut across this character's face which, in combination with his German accent, was evidently intended to portray this violent psychopath as a member of the Old School of Prussian militarism to which you and the other National Socialist types evidently fantasize that you belong.) But nobody who isn't literally crazy in the psychiatric sense would propose a duel over a POLITICAL issue.

But there are some deeper issues here which you evidently have no inkling of. One of these issues is that of civilization vs barbarism, and in particular, what differentiates one from the other. The answer is VIOLENCE: The barbarian is the man who only knows how to settle his differences with others by violent confrontation, while the civilized man settles them in -- dare I say it? -- a civilized way, ie, without violence. And the reason that we civilized people say that civilization is better than barbarism is because we do not believe that might makes right, ie, we do not believe that moral or personal issues should be settled (so to speak) by violence, since we believe that just because A is able to beat B up, or kill him in a duel, that this does not prove that A was right on the point at issue. This is not, of course, to say that there are no times when violence is appropriate -- there obviously are -- but it IS to say that such times do not ordinarily involve differences of a philosophical or personal nature.

Another deeper issue on which you are evidently clueless is that of the utter stupidity of the internecine warfare which plagues the Movement and keeps it from accomplishing anything serious. (The New Orleans Protocol was an attempt to address this, but was not something I could endorse for reasons which I have elaborated elsewhere -- see article in the Net Losses section.) We may parody the problem by quoting Rodney King's quodlibet "Why can't we all just get along?', but the real problem is that white liberationists are a bunch of re-tards in comparison to the Jews on this matter, since Jews have learned how to disagree ("Wherever there are two Jews there are three opinions" is a Jewish proverb) without being disagreeable, and without interfering with their ability to work together, whereas white liberationists exhaust themselves fighting each other, just as you are doing by insisting on ending the life of a Movement activist (or probably two, since a duel to the death would mean that the 'winner' would end up in jail for a nice long stretch) when we ought instead to be working -- if not exactly together -- then at least not at cross-purposes.

Now while you are in the middle of attempting to purge the Movement of evil people who dare to defend liberty against ignorant authoritarianism, I believe I can make the point about internecine warfare a little more personal. In particular, in view of the fact that you claim to be a National Socialist, a homophobe and an antisemite, are you aware that Hitler was a quarter-Jew and that a great many members of the nazi hierarchy were also Jews? You will find ample documentation for this in the video put out by Jim Condit Jr, the book by Kordel entitled Hitler Founder of Israel, in Ralph Epperson's The Unseen Hand, and in Goldberg's The Jewish Connection. But that's not the worst of it, because National Socialism in Germany was shot thru with homosexuals, SA leader Ernst Roehm being only the best known (As JBR Yant once joked, "When in Roehm, do as Roehm does."), and if you want more information, read the online book The Pink Swastika. (An annotated version of this book questions some of its claims, but I am not in a position to evaluate it.) AND -- very importantly -- HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOTORIOUS FOR THEIR PEDOPHILIC INCLINATIONS. So I ask you, are you going to continue calling yourself a National Socialist in view of its Jewish and homosexual-pedophiliac taint? My point here, of course, is that attempting to purge the Movement of everything that is 'tainted' would end up purging most of the Movement, which means that if people are going to work together, then they have got to learn to be a bit more tolerant. I have explored this mattter in the lengthy essay on my website entitled 'Big Tent Philosophy' (in the Diversity section). Maybe you and your intolerant friends had better read, mark, learn and inwardly digest it.

In responding to your talk of physical courage, let me just offer a few observations. To begin, no matter how stupid you are -- and that seems to be plenty -- you know I am not going to accept your (extremely stupid) offer, which means quite simply that it doesn't take any courage on your part to challenge me to a duel, and this in turn means that, as far as courage goes, you haven't proved a damn thing about your courage from your challenge, but only that you have a big mouth. So now let's take me. For seven years I have been sitting on the hot seat of a website dealing with the world's most controversial and emotional topics, parrying hate mail and trying to get thru the marble skulls of liberals and leftists on the one hand, and Blight Wingers like you on the other. On top of that I undergo constant harassment by computer and phone from these same people, who let me know that they would love to do to me exactly what you seem so eager to do. All of which means that, when they start to put people in the Camps, I am going to be one of the first they come for (if I live that long), whereas you, you are just another faceless ignorant jerk that wears steel-toed boots and looks like he is undergoing chemotherapy, and all you have to do to keep yourself out of the Camps is to stay inside for a week so your hair can grow. So don't talk to me about physical courage, Mr Pisspants. And while you are at it, take a look at my Columbia Military Academy yearbook bio, and notice the marksmanship medal. Since the challenged party has the right to select the weapon, do you really want to tangle with me? I thought not. (Oh, you claim you would, no doubt, but how much would you be willing to bet you are speaking the truth if your response was checked by a lie detector?) But let's take physical courage one step farther and ask, If you are so 'courageous' as to be eager to kill someone over a philosophical difference, then why haven't you gone to Washington and actually put your courage to good use? The answer, I suspect, is that you are all bark and no bite, without the guts for anything genuinely useful.

In reflecting on the matter, let me just say that your letter doesn't really surprise me, because what I have been dealing with in this debate about pedophilia is not primarily facts about sex or differing behavioral rationales, but rather a collection of people whom the issue of pedophilia drives into a fit of hysterical eclampsia. More particularly, in the various conversations I have had on the subject, no one has ever offered a serious challenge to my arguments (Saying, as you do, that a bunch of mostly-Jewish and probably-psychotic psychiatrists don't approve of pedo is not what I would call an argument), with the result that the most my oponents have been able to say is that they think pedo is 'wrong', 'awful', 'horrible' and other equally non-persuasive ejaculations. For them, facts don't matter and reason doesn't matter. They are all in agreement that Western civilization is best, but then they go 'bonkers in Yonkers' when they discover that the founders of that civilization practiced pedo for a THOUSAND YEARS. I can't reason with them, and I can't reason with you -- I only write this letter so as to put this hysterical irrationality and factual ignorance on display for others, with the hope that these others will be warned against descending into the Black Lagoon of this mindset.

In closing, I have some reactions to specific statements in your letter. I have interleaved these reactions with your text and marked them with ****** below:

*************

Mr. Bryant:

Your strident support of pedophilia is the latest example of the degeneracy infesting racialist circles.

***** I didn't 'stridently support' pedo. In fact I didn't support it at all. But I did support the principle of personal liberty as against the power of the State. Not that an 'Aryan warrior' would have noticed.

Instead of combating the insidious influence of the Jews and the traitorous government of the United States, you prefer to devote considerable time, energy, and expense to advancing a pedophilic agenda.

******* I am defending Western civilization, in case you hadn't noticed. It is RIGHT ON THE HOME PAGE OF MY WEBSITE, and reads OUR FIGHT: THE STRUGGLE TO PRESERVE WESTERN CIVILIZATION. Not that an 'Aryan warrior' would have noticed, since he would probably be too busy flexing his muscles.

This is unsurprising given the number of sexual deviants such as Kevin Strom, Anthony Pierpont, and Martin Lindstedt that one encounters in racialist circles.

****** It is bad enuf to condemn Kevin before he has been tried, and worse yet that he is to be tried in a corrupt judicial system, whose verdict is unlikely to be fair to anyone involved in a pro-white cause. And it is even worse that none of the 'charges' -- such as they are -- amount to ANYTHING, at least as far as I am aware. But what is really bad is that charges of homosexuality and pedo are the perfect way for the Foreskinners to disable people in leadership positions and help insure that the Movement remains where it has been for the last 50 years, namely, on Square One.

Nonetheless, we Aryan warriors will not stand idle while untermenschen like yourself utilize the National Socialist Movement as a vehicle for advancing their putrid agenda.

******* Am I an untermensh? And do I 'utilize' the NSM? Oh, you are a GAS! (Zyklon B, perhaps?)

Sex with children is morally wrong and reprehensible. Children should not be having sex, much less with adults. They lack the maturity along with the mental and physical development for making informed decisions about sex. Society recognizes that children lack the requisite maturity to make certain decisions, which is why society does not permit children to vote or enter into contracts. A healthy society built on Aryan values would conduct public beheadings of degenerates that gratify their perverted inclinations by having sex with children.

******* What are 'Aryan values'? I take it that they would not have much in common with the values of Thomas Jefferson. The point here is that -- just as with NS in Germany, you believe that the children belong to the State, while I say that they should belong to the PARENTS. You want little robots, I want people. Oh, and there wouldn't be just a little bit of degeneracy in public beheadings, would there? I mean, if you want to make an example out of these people, why not just go all the way and have crucifixions? Lots of fun, really, and no spattered blood!

A healthy Aryan society would protect the most vulnerable against pernicious individuals that seek to harm children.

If you possessed a modicum of common sense or the slightest mental inclination that was not directed towards children, you would know that medical and psychiatric journals contain ample evidence conclusively demonstrating that children suffer irreparable harm because of sexual abuse by adults. You accuse your opponents of failing to substantiate their claim that sexual contact with adults traumatizes children. As the one making the ludicrous claim that children often enjoy sex with adults, the burden is on you to provide factual support to buttress your assertion. Thus far, you have failed to provide even a scintilla of evidence to back up your absurd contention.

***** How about a thousand years of Greek pedo?

Because I am an Aryan Knight that abides by the true warrior code of Skinheads, which demands that I protect Aryan women and children from evil, I am challenging you to a duel.

***** Speaking of LUDICROUS...

I demand that you either recant your beliefs or fight me to the death in single combat. True Aryan warriors settle their disputes by the strength of their arms. Your website is replete with references to war and manly ways of resolving disputes. Now is the time for you to demonstrate your manliness and testicular fortitude

****** It's INTESTINAL fortitude -- you don't feel fear in your balls. But then, screwed up as you are, maybe you do.

by fighting to the death. Seeing that you are a keyboard warrior and weakling, I do not expect you to accept my challenge, which is why I am forwarding this letter throughout the racialist community.

****** You are forwarding your letter because you think you can build yourself up in others' eyes by tearing me down. But I can pretty much guarantee that you won't forward MY RESPONSE, because that would demonstrate not only that you have not succeeded in cutting me down, but that you have been pretty well cut down yourself.

That way, the entire racialist community will see that you are a wimp, which is why you target children.

****** Golly, I guess I am going to have to send for Arnie's course. Then I can target men (and maybe boys) like a good National Socialist!

The duel will take place outside the Red Dragon at noon on Saturday February 24, 2007. The Red Dragon is located at 2116 Lynndale Ave South in Minneapolis, MN. Please let me know within forty-eight hours of receiving this message whether you accept my challenge.

Heil Hitler!!! Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of ZOG

 

Skinhead Correspondence Continues

Dear Joe the Skinhead:

I answered your first letter both generically and line by line. How very clever of you, then, to respond in your letter below by saying that my letter was 'unworthy of a response', since what you were really doing was ADMITTING THAT YOU CAN'T ANSWER MY ARGUMENTS. OK, so now I have kicked your butt once, but you are either too stupid to see that or too cowardly to acknowledge it, so I will kick your butt once again. My comments are interleaved with your text and marked *****:

Mr. Bryant:

I suggest you change your nickname from “The Birdman” to “The Chickenhawk,”
as the description would be much more apropos both from the standpoint of
your irrational fixation with young children and your unwillingness to
engage in single combat.

***** (1) Insult is the last refuge of the out-argued.
(2) I don't have the least fixation with children, but I do have a fixation with PERSONAL LIBERTY. You are TRYING DESPERATELY to smear me as a 'pervert' but it isn't going to work, sorree! (Hey, the Jews are pretty good at that sort of thing...)
(3) Again, you ignore the fact that WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CIVILIZED is that people settle their differences WITHOUT RESORTING TO PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION. But I guess you are just TOO STUPID and TOO PRIMITIVE to recognize that, aren't you, Jo-Jo?

Although your long-winded tirade does not merit a
response,

****** Then why are you responding? Answer: Altho you could not answer the arguments in my previous letter, you are evidently hoping that some new material will somehow rescue you from embarrassment. But as it turns out, it won't.

there are several points that I wish to raise.
You call yourself a libertarian yet you say children “should belong to
their parents.” How would you reconcile the contradiction that children
should be free to have sex with adults, but that they belong to their
parents?

******* The point is that, in the libertarian view, it should be THE PARENTS, and NOT the State, who make decisions for the child, including sexual ones. You would have known this if you had bothered to read the material that I gave a link for in my recent exchanges with others. But no, you are evidently much more comfortable being ignorant.

If a child belongs to his parents, then it follows that child may
not consent to sex with adults without their parents’ permission.
Moreover, you claim to reject authoritarianism, yet how would you reconcile
a situation where a parent disapproves of a child’s decision to have sex
with an adult? You say that you reject force as a means for resolving
disputes. Yet how is one to resolve this dispute without using force?

**** I am using the term authoritarianism in the political sense. (A government that allows its population little freedom is authoritarian.) I am not using it to refer to parents who control their children's behavior, because the word isn't used in that sense. And OF COURSE parents must sometimes use 'force' -- if that is what you want to call it -- to control their children, but this is not the same as when I speak of barbarism as being the state in which people (ie, adults) settle their differences with violent confrontation. HOWEVER, if you wanted to stretch the meaning of words a bit, you COULD say that the relation between parents and child is barbarian in the sense that the children are not yet civilized and the parents must therefore use force to control them; but this is somewhat odd and misleading, since in the barbarian world which you inhabit, might makes right, and the only thing that counts is who is left standing after a confrontation, whereas in most cases of parental control, parents act in the child's and family's best interests.


Additionally, you claim that adult sex with children was prevalent in
ancient Greece without offering any evidence, save your own normative
judgment.

******* Again, you didn't bother to read my postings. How blissful you must find ignorance! The evidence I gave was the Wikipedia article on pederasty in ancient Greece. What you seem to be saying in the quote below is that sex with children didn't 'really' happen in ancient Greece because pederasty was (supposedly) confined to relations between adults on the one hand and post-pubescent-but-still-immature males on the other, but this is highly dubious and also largely irrelevant. It is irrelevant because most people in the present day would consider such contact as pedophilia, and it is dubious because, granting that sexual contact between adults and post-pubescent boys was 'sexually standard' behavior, it is extremely likely that this behavior would occasionally 'spill over' into a younger age group FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE ACTIVITY WAS JUST NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM 'SEXUALLY STANDARD' CONDUCT. (In this context, note how the quote you give below actually makes my case; for if Solon had to pass laws against situations leading to likely sexual contact between adults and pre-pubescent males, EVEN AN IDIOT LIKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THAT SUCH LIAISONS HAD BECOME A 'PROBLEM', IE, WERE HAPPENING.)


The historical evidence indicates that:

Today the word pederasty is generally used to describe the sexual attraction
of an adult to an immature child, but to the Greeks it signified the love of
a man for a boy who had passed the age of puberty, but who had not yet
reached maturity. Homosexuality in the modern sense, between two adults of
the generally same age group, is seldom attested to in ancient Athens, but
intercourse with a boy before the age of puberty was as illegal there, as in
most civilizations.(III,p.85-86) There was a wide range of legislation on
man-boy relationships. At the beginning of the sixth century B.C., Solon the
lawgiver, himself a pederast, had imposed the death penalty for any adult
male found, without authorization, on the premises of a school, (where the
boys would be below the age of puberty). Solon also declared it illegal for
a slave to have a relationship with a free born boy, an unlikely eventuality
in the case of educational pedastry, but this is an indication that the
noneducational kind may have been on the increase. Further, any man who
incited a free boy to offer his charms professionally (to prostitute
himself), was liable to be deprived of his civil rights for life. However,
the general impression conveyed by Athenian sources is that most pederastic
offenses, like tow-away-zone parking today, were recognized as illegal only
by those who were unfortunate enough to be caught.(III,p.92)
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sirrobhitch.suffolk/Portland%20State%20University%20Greek%20Civilization%20Home%20Page%20v2/docs/10/elinii.html

I do not wish to engage in a historical debate about sexual practices in
ancient Greece.

****** That is because it is perfectly clear from the source I have cited that there was frequent sexual congress between men and boys in ancient Greece. As I said above, maybe pre-pubescent boys weren't involved that much, but my guess is that, with all the pederasty going on, they were involved to some extent, just like some kids drink and smoke nowadays.

However, it is difficult to apply the conditions of ancient
Greece to our modern age, as children in ancient Greece were often married
in their early teens and the life span was approximately thirty years of
age.

******* It sounds like you are trying to argue that, because people didn't live as long, pederasty wasn't really pederasty. Sorree, argument no workee!

I believe the foregoing quote demonstrates your appalling ignorance of
history or your willingness to twist the truth in order to advocate on
behalf of your depraved agenda.

****** (1) I have already pointed out how the quote makes my case. If it shows anything else, I have not yet detected what. (2) My agenda is personal liberty. I can surely understand why an uncivilized brute like you would consider it depraved.

******

I also find your dismissal of evidence from psychiatric journals to be
laughable.

****** What I DO know is that psychiatry is very unscientific. It is mostly opinion and theory, untouched by research (Freud is the classic example, but many have followed in his footsteps), that there are a zillion different 'schools', and that NONE of them have an ANY SIGNIFICANT DATA on adult-child sex relations, or for that matter, anything at all. If, then, it is 'laughable' to dismiss the findings of these quacks -- people who have the highest suicide rate of any profession, BTW -- then make the most of it. On the other hand, however, we do have A THOUSAND YEARS OF DATA on Greek civilization -- data which tells us that pedo did not seem to be a problem, but rather was idealized and made a state institution.

You claim that it is all the work of Jews, yet you do not admit
the possibility that Jews wrote some of the “research” on National Socialist
Germany (particularly when you quote someone named Goldberg) and ancient
Greece.

****** I didn't claim that all psychiatric work was by Jews. I merely pointed out the high proportion of Jews in psychiatric work. That was to demonstrate that the journals YOU cited were -- by your own criterion -- 'tainted'. As to the material on Hitler being Jewish, you are obviously talking about something you don't know the least thing about.


It is also funny that you call yourself a libertarian, yet you beg
strangers for money on your website. “Freedom isn't free! To insure the
continuation of this website and the survival of its creator in these
financially-troubled times, please send donations directly to the Birdman at
PO Box 66683, St Pete Beach FL 33736-6683” www.thebirdman.org. If you
believe in freedom and the free market as strongly as you claim to and if
others deemed the execrable material on your site to be worth perusing, then
you would not have to stick out the collection plate like the Christian
churches.

******* It is hard to see how anyone with an IQ above room temperature could have said something so incredibly stupid. Libertarianism is about FREEDOM, and in particular the freedom to buy and sell AND GIVE freely. (So much for the 'conflict' between libertarianism and asking for donations.) But of course I am not operating in a free market, because even on the Net I am very restricted as to how I can get my message out. That means that a great many people who would buy my books never even hear of them.

You represent the apotheosis of Jewish parasitism, as you are
incapable of earning your own bread with the labor of your hands and must
instead implore others to fund your life of indolence and debauchery.

***** It would help if you learned the meaning of the words you use. You don't mean 'apotheosis' here, but something more like 'acme'. But even that is wrong. You, like a lot of other people who hate Jews, simply don't understand the first thing about economic matters. In particular, you think -- just like Lenin and his crew, I might add -- that working with your hands is somehow more 'noble' than working with information. That's why the Soviets paid taxi drivers more than doctors. And that -- among other things -- is why the Soviet Union failed. And my life of indolence and debauchery? If you think you can do anything even APPROACHING what I do while engaging in 'indolence and debauchery', I would like to see it. Or to put it slightly differently, it really is quite incredible how stupid and ignorant you are.

Finally, I consider you a coward for your unwillingness to
engage me in single combat. If you were as proficient in arms as you claim
to be, then you would eagerly embrace my challenge.

****** I just cannot BELIEVE your stupidity! Why would I want to kill you and spend the rest of my life in jail? You are just one miserable punk -- an uncivilized barbarian who will probably end up dead in some barroom fight. The world is full of people like you. It would be nice to be rid of such people, but it would be even nicer to be rid of the politicians in Washington who are sending this country to Hell in a handbasket. But you are too much of a coward to pick on them -- instead you want to start a fight with a 63-year old (or say you do). Or in other words, you say you are protector of the weak, but then you try to pick a fight with an old man. Yeah, big hero. BIG FRAUD.

You insult me for being
a coward, yet you must not know that I, and a handful of my Skinhead
companions, fought alongside Hezbollah against the Israeli forces in
Lebanon. While you were idly chattering away on the keyboard, my fellow
National Socialists and I were risking our lives to fight take the war
straight to the Jewish snake. In fact, my fellow Skinheads and I received
an “iron crescent” from Sheik Hassan Nasrallah himself. You are more than
welcome to contact Aljazeera for the video of the ceremony.

***** Just another case of your amazing stupidity. You fight the Jews, but you are doing it for people who are EVEN WORSE, and whose population will overwhelm Europe in just a couple of generations. At least Jews have the smarts to realize the benefits of Western civilization, while the Salamis want to take us back to 666 AD. No thanks!

In any event, I believe that I have amply demonstrated your
intellectual and moral ineptitude.

****** To the contrary, as I have shown, you have merely demonstrated your own.

Racialism remains in the lunatic fringe
of American politics because degenerates such as you are allowed to become
self-appointed leaders.

****** Degenerate, you say? I would say that someone who wants to take us back to 666 AD pretty well satisfies the notion of 'degenerate'. Now as to the matter of self-appointed leaders, why don't you just appoint yourself a leader and do better than I? I will tell you why: Because you can't. You are just an uncivilized brute teetering on the brink of violence and insanity. Indeed, maybe you are a mind-controlled Manchurian Candidate whom the Jews have sent to 'get to me' because they can't get me any other way. Let's just hope they lock you away in a nut house before you go postal.

We in the movement must reject human excrement such
as "The Chickenhawk."

Heil Hitler!
Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard)
Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of
ZOG

 

Joe the Skinhead Shatters

Two more exchanges with Birdman

Dear Joe the Skinhead:

As usual, my responses are interleaved in your text and marked ******

--------

Mr. Bryant:

How odd that you claim “insult is the last refuge of the out-argued.” You began the ad hominem attacks, perhaps because you are incapable of defending your position in a cogent and logical manner. Your belief that you have “kicked my butt” in this argument is, to put it charitably, delusional and indicative of megalomania.

****** Yawn...

I am not sure how you intend to reconcile the glaring inconsistency whereby you state that parents have a right to control their children (including forcibly preventing them from engaging in sexual activities with adults) while claiming that children have the right to consent to sex with adults.

******* That is because you didn't read my argument, or didn't understand it if you did. Your reaction epitomizes why I don't like arguing with barbarians -- they are good at flexing their muscles, but don't do too well in flexing their brains.

Your position is illogical and contradictory. As soon as you accept the premise that a parent, in the child’s interest, may control the activities of a child then you can no longer accept the unbridled freedom of the child to consent to sex with adults if it goes against the wishes of the parent.

***** I never advocated any such thing. DUUUUUHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

This throws ice-cold water into your claim that “My agenda is personal liberty” as you approve of parents controlling their children.

***** Yawn again.

You write… (In this context, note how the quote you give below actually makes my case; for if Solon had to pass laws against situations leading to likely sexual contact between adults and pre-pubescent males, EVEN AN IDIOT LIKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THAT SUCH LIAISONS HAD BECOME A 'PROBLEM', IE, WERE HAPPENING.)

The fact that Solon passed laws against sex between adults and pre-pubescent males invalidates your argument that child sex was widely approved of in ancient Greece.

****** I never said it was WIDELY approved -- I only said it wasn't very different from what was going on, and so probably happened on a regular basis, but nobody has any data on the subject except such references as the Solon quote.

Additionally, your claim that Hitler was part Jewish is pure conjecture. The primary adherents of this preposterous myth tend to be rabid Jewish historians.

***** Again, I gave the references. If you want to argue with the exponents, you are free to do so. But as it stands, they have the information, and you have nothing but a big mouth babbling about 'pure conjecture' etc etc etc.

You write… It would help if you learned the meaning of the words you use. You don't mean 'apotheosis' here, but something more like 'acme'.

The word apotheosis means “the ideal example; epitome; quintessence: This poem is the apotheosis of lyric expression.. “

****** I concede your point. The word had a meaning I was unacquainted with. But I ask you to note that I have the guts to concede that you are right about something, whereas you have not yet had the courage to concede that I am right about anything, even tho I have been right about just about EVERYTHING.

As I said earlier, you are the ideal example of Jewish parasitism.

****** I do believe we have gone over this matter, and pointed out your unrecoverable errors in logic and economic comprehension. More yawns.

I take umbrage with your personal attacks about my courage. I, Joe The Skinhead, have been involved in numerous fights against the reds and muds. We also fight against the Islamic scum that is presently invading the West, though we have no problem with the Muslims fighting for freedom in their own countries. Further, my Skinhead friends and I are conducting exhaustive preparations to wage war against ZOG and the politicians in Washington. This is why a handful of us went to Lebanon last year. We went there to gain practical experience fighting face to face against dark forces of Israel. We will one day do the same thing on the streets of America.

****** Sounds like your first targets will be the people in the Movement you don't like, such as me. Then, after you have taken care of us, ZOG will either give you a medal for being undercover operatives who do its dirty work, or -- more likely -- they will wipe YOU out, too.

You attack me for my lack of leadership, yet you do not realize that I am the Minnesota leader of UNDERGROUND SKINHEADS OF THE EIGHTY-EIGHTH DEGREE. We model our fraternal order on masonry, except that to attain the highest realms, one must undergo eighty-eight degrees of training. As you guessed, the eighty-eight symbolizes our fearless leader, Adolph Hitler.

***** ROTFLMAO!!! (PS: I love 'underground movements' that announce themselves in public forums!)

Lastly, since you are too cowardly to fight me in person

****** YAWN x googleplex.

and insist on employing “civilized” modes of expression, I propose that you debate me on the VNN Forum. Like the physical duel, I would not be surprised if you did not accept my challenge.

****** If you haven't had your butt beaten enuf, just send me whatever response you want via email, and I will keep kicking your butt till it is bloody. Then you can post the letters on VNN or wherever you want, tho if you do, I strongly suspect that you will not be honest enuf to post them in their entirety, but will only post selected parts which, out of context, make you sound good. Of course what your REALLY want is to have a 'debate' on VNN so that all your civilization-impaired friends can join in and 'help' you, since you have pretty well run out of steam at this point and desperately need someone to come to your rescue. My point is that I am willing to debate you and post the letters on my website, but I am not going to take on the entire infernal regiment of knuckleheads.

Heil Hitler! Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of ZOG

 

[Joe replies:]

Mr. Chickenhawk:

I would say that your rant has descended into the abyss of insults if it were not for the fact that saying this would imply that your comments were once civil. It is apparent that you are one of those disturbed individuals that utilize the movement as a platform for spewing forth your own disgusting worldview. You are one of those psychologically disturbed individuals that go out of his way to offend the sensibilities of people in order to derive some perverse gratification. You undoubtedly think that you are a dialectically dexterous fellow, though your inability to defeat me through argumentation is readily apparent to anyone with slightly higher than room temperature IQ.

Heil Hitler!!! Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of ZOG

 

[Birdman responds:]

Dear Joe the Skinhead:

I see that your most recent missive has nothing to offer except insults, even as you go about stealing my phraseology to create those insults ("IQ above room temperature"). I am delighted at this, because it means you have nothing more to say of any consequence, evidently because I have whipped your butt into silence. As T.S. ("Tough Shit") Eliot might have said, your world has ended not with a bang, but with a whimper. But at least you did not fail to provide me with one last laugh, to wit, an allegation from an 'Aryan barbarian' that I have been 'uncivil'.

In closing, let me say that my silencing you is a bittersweet victory, because I believe we are both on the same side in the conflict that really matters, and that internecine warfare is something which should be avoided among those with the purpose which we share. For this reason I offer you a symbolic olive branch, a symbolic handshake of friendship and mutual respect between warriors who have fought the good fight in a civil rather than an uncivil way. They are for you to accept or to reject, as you wish.

-Birdman

 

[Joe replies:]

Mr. Chickenhawk:

You are delusional and conceited in thinking that I stole the term “room temperature IQ” from you. Though I did not coin the term, I have been using it for many years.

I also reject your “olive branch,” as I do not consider you one of us. You state on your website that you are not opposed to miscegenation. Moreover, your decision to support legalizing pedophilia is immoral and counterproductive from the standpoint of tactics. Even I was to concede arguendo that pedophilia should be legalized; it would amount to a tactical blunder. The overwhelming majority of white people are opposed to legalizing pedophilia. It would be more advantageous to try to highlight the issues where we are in accord with most people or at least where the gulf is the narrowest. Regrettably, you do not see this reality because you are devoid of political instincts.

Finally, I do not believe that you have “won” this debate. On the contrary, I have amply illustrated the immorality of your position and the obvious contradictions in your logic.

Heil Hitler!!! Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy of ZOG

 

[Birdman responds:]

Dear Joe The Skinhead:

Your response is what I expected -- you simply could not resist the temptation to hurl a final insult or two at me, with the result that you make yourself look doubly bad by refusing to figuratively 'shake hands' with an opponent, thererby behaving in an unsportsmanlike manner.

Now as to the matter of who won this debate, there is a very simple test: I am posting it on my website permanently at http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Lbtn/Lbtn-Sex&Kids-ALibertarianView.htm. If I felt I lost the debate, I obviously wouldn't be posting it, nor would I have been posting our correspondence all along, as I have in fact done. So if you feel that you, rather than I, really won, then let's see you send the correspondence out to all those addresses you sent your first letter to. Since I strongly expect that you won't do that, that is an acknowledgement that you lost, and you know it. Of course you may send the correspondence out in response to my challenge, but that would prove that you are an even greater fool than you have already showed yourself to be.

As to the matter of your acquisition of my phrase 'room temperature IQ', the point which you missed was that, if I use a distinctive phrase in a letter, and then you write a response which uses the same distinctive phrase, then it is clear that you have picked it up from my usage, and are in some sense imitating me, as a child would imitate an adult. Got it now, Jo-Jo?

I will add our most recent exchange tomorrow to the given url, and also on the Daily Reads page.

Now go and beat up some 63-year-old white man, Hero Joe. Besides hurling insults, you don't seem to be capable of doing much of anything else.

-Birdman

 

[Joe writes; Birdman again responds:]

On 2/21/07 at 8:36 PM Joe The Skinhead wrote:

>Mr. Chickenhawk:
>
>The fact that you choose to post our exchange on your website has nothing
>to
>do with whether you are right or not.

********* Naw, of course it doesn't. How could I have been so dumb? Geez, I am rully, rully embarrassed, Dahling...

I am indeed correct and I won the
>debate.

******** I am preparing a press release so that all the world will know that JOE WON, AND THAT THERE IS NO ONE WHO CAN HOLD A CANDLE TO JOE! HEIL JO-JO!

Your inability to employ basic logic is startling and you possess
>delusions of grandeur.

******** Ah, yes, forget all those logic papers I have published! Jo-JO IS THE ONE! JO-JO KNOWS ALL! HEIL JO-JO!
>
>I found your “shaking hands” gesture to be insincere. The fact that you
>insisted that you had won the debate, insulted my manhood, and then
>offered
>to “shake hands” provides evidence of this.

******* Personally, I would say it is better at providing evidence of the inheritance of acquired characteristics and the existence of life on Mars. But then what do I know in comparison to THE GREAT JO-JO?

>
>We Skinheads are Aryan men of honor that are fighting for what is right.

******* I would be inclined to say that most Skinheads are knuckleheads who like to get into bar fights three-on-one or more so as to make sure to beat the crap out of whoever tells them that they are knuckleheads. Problem is, no matter how many fights they win, they are still knuckleheads, and someday will find that beating up people three-on-one won't work because the guy they try to beat up will pull out a gun and puncture their drunken fantasies of spastic-armed goose-stepping totalitarianism.

>We
>are the only group that is actively resisting ZOG and its New World Order,
>while other cranks type up elaborate rants on their websites in order to
>promote degenerate behavior like pedophilia. Ordinary white people will
>look to us Skinheads to lead the revolution against ZOG.

******* I would personally prefer ZOG to hakenkreutzer totalitarianism. Not that you are smart enuf or sensitive enuf to tell the difference.

>
>For a ZOG clip on the success of Skinheads I suggest you look at
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79wU5B6hAEQ
>
>Heil Hitler!!!
>Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard)
>Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy
>of
>ZOG

 

[Joe responds:]

Mr. Chickenhawk:

We Skinheads are true Aryan warriors fighting on the streets against the Communists and muds. We are fighting for freedom just as our Founding Fathers did in 1776. Imagine if they had believed the same pacifist rubbish that you espouse. Perhaps they could have confined their activism to writing letters trying to legalize pedophilia. In that case, we would still be a British colony.

Here is another video of our Skinhead brothers in Russia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybu8UJzy-yA May the Gods continue to support our distinguished fraternal order of Skinheads.

Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard) Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy Of ZOG

 

[Birdman replies:]

Dear Hero Joe:

While you are so busy desperately declaring yourself an 'Aryan warrior' who is virtually equivalent to the American Founding Fathers, be sure to keep everyone informed of all the other 63-year-old libertarian white men you try to pick fights with. I mean, what more appropriate target could you have in a fight for 'freedom' and against 'communists and muds' (your current targets, apparently -- Jews seem to have dropped out of the picture), especially if you and your drooling and knuckle-dragging hakenkreutzer drinking buddies from the Red Dragon Restaurant gang up on him. And such a perfect occupation for a self-declared "protector of the weak"!

Go get slobbering drunk, Joe, you miserable loser.

-Birdman

 

Mr. Chickenhawk:

We Skinheads ordinarily do not target sixty-three year old white libertarian
men. However, when these men advocate legalization of pedophilia and other
forms of deviant sexual behavior, then we have no alternative but to target
them as well. Our duty to protect children trumps whatever respect and
deference we ordinarily owe our elders.

My crew and I are indiscriminate in who we target, though we prefer to
target gangsters and other degenerate scum, as they pose the most imminent
threat to the good white citizens of Minnesota. At present, we Skinheads
are at the forefront of the fight against the notorious MS 13 gang that has
been allowed to operate with impunity throughout America. While the police
shirk in their responsibilities, we Skinheads have made a profound statement
by taking the fight straight to the enemy. Our Skinhead warriors are
courageous men who fear nothing. For if we were to perish in battle we are
all certain that our ultimate destination is Valhalla!

Heil Hitler!!!
Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard)
Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite and an Avowed Enemy of
ZOG



[Birdman replies:]

Dear Hero Joe:

Let's face it, Joe -- You are a COWARD, you are a BARBARIAN, and you are a TOTALITARIAN.

You are a COWARD because you try to pick fights with 63-year-old men, and then you have the gall to call THEM cowards when they are not so stupid as to want to take the Hobson's choice you offer of either getting killed or going to jail.

You are a BARBARIAN because you want to settle personal differences by violence, whereas the very essence of civilization is settling differences WITHOUT violence.

And you are a TOTALITARIAN because you worship Hitler and his regime, known the world over for absolute State control of the population.

Besides the above, you are also STUPID, because you cannot see the difference between totalitarianism, which you explicitly embrace, and freedom, which you say you are fighting for.

And while I don't know anything about you personally except what you have written, I very much expect that most of the following are true, for they are the kinds of things I would expect of people who go around heiling Hitler, wearing a hairstyle that makes them look like a chemotherapy patient, and proclaiming to all the world that they are the head of a 'secret' organization with '88 degrees':

* You are a criminal
* You are a drunkard
* You are a drug-user
* You are a scholastic failure
* You have no stable female relationship
* You have homosexual tendencies
* You have a dead-end job, or no job at all
* You haven't changed your underwear in a week or your pants in a month
* You eat scads of junk food
* You have (or have had) a bad case of acne
* You rarely if ever brush your teeth
* You badly need dental work
* Your heiling arm got thrown out of joint at the last Skinhead festival

Beyond the above, your silly posturing about you and your fellow Skinheads being 'Aryan warriors' who are taking the place of the police makes it pretty clear that what is really going on is that there are two gangs of violent punks fighting a turf war. Maybe there is some advantage to a white gang over the MS-13 hispanic gang, tho I doubt it would be much, but it is only your beer-sotted barroom fantasy that a bunch of gang-bangers like you and your knucklehead friends are going to 'save' American 'freedom', since you don't even have a clue as to what freedom is.

I hope you make it to Valhalla, Joe -- at the earliest possible date.

-Birdman

 

[Joe responds:]

Dear Chickenhawk:

The comments that you made about Skinheads in general and me in particular
are untrue. Our fraternal order of Skinheads promotes the highest moral
standards and we do not tolerate deviants and other assorted scum. We do
not tolerate smoking, drinking, and drug use within our ranks. These vile
things destroy the mind and poison the body and we want nothing to do with
them. Although we disagree with some of the Skinhead groups that do not
uphold such high standards, we nevertheless consider them our brothers
because we are ultimately fighting the same enemy.

Your personal attacks against me are also unfounded. I am a voracious
reader and a reasonably well educated individual notwithstanding the fact
that I dropped out of college several weeks into my freshman year because I
felt it amounted to a waste of time and money. I prefer the Jeffersonian
model of education whereby one does not attend a formal regimen of classes,
but rather attends university until one feels that one is sufficiently
educated. Moreover, under this model one is free to subsequently return to
school and take new courses. This is preferable to our present model where
every imbecile is encouraged to indebt himself to the max in order to obtain
a degree. These individuals graduate with tends of thousands of dollars in
debt, equal losses in terms of opportunity costs, and they emerge no better
educated than before they commenced college.

As far as my job situation is concerned, I joined the US Army after 9/11 and
I became a Green Beret in order to obtain real military training. I served
honorably in Afghanistan, although I was later separated due to my refusal
to go to Iraq. At present, I work as a day laborer in order to reach out to
the disenfranchised white workers. I do not need to work because I
inherited a great deal of money, but I like working with my hands and, more
importantly, I am able to spread the word to the masses. I could never see
myself as a 21st century serf stuck in some cubicle in a downtown
skyscraper.

In any event, I am in outstanding mental and physical shape and I have a
girlfriend whom I have converted to the case (something that one rarely sees
in the movement). Although I believe that violence is the solution to our
problems, I do not dismiss the possibility that we should exploit
non-violent channels when it is politically expedient to do so. My
preference for violence does not arise out of a psychopathic nature, but
rather out of applying the lessons of history. The Communists in the USSR
and Red China successfully employed violence as instruments of change, as
did the founding fathers. The Klan did the same after the Civil War much
like the Founding Fathers did in 1776. Until someone convinces me that
working within the Judaic system will achieve freedom for my people, I will
continue to employ violent means and the attacks will not abate.

Finally, I fight for freedom of my people to be rid of this Zionist
kleptocracy that has enslaved the Western world. My concept of freedom is
not the liberty to pursue selfish materialist and hedonistic pursuits.
These variants of freedom are examples of Jewish perversion of traditional
Aryan concepts of freedom, as evidenced by the Jewess Ayn Rand and her
materialist diatribes. Instead, I prefer the concept of old Germanic
freedom described by Tacitus in Germania. In old Germanic society, citizens
elected their chieftains and even slaves enjoyed much greater freedom than
in the Roman world. Just look to the great Icelandic people and their
millennium old parliament the Althing. It is our desire to bring back this
old world that motivates us to fight our enemies on the streets.

Joe The Skinhead (Joe Odegaard)
Proud Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Homophobe, Anti-Semite, and an Avowed Enemy
Of
ZOG


[Birdman replies:]

Dear Joe the Skinhead:

Well, it is certainly amusing to know that there is a rich boy lurking in the shadows of the Red Dragon Restaurant, where he goes with his bald and booted Knucklehead friends to non-drink and non-smoke, but that doesn't change the following facts that have been ABUNDANTLY PROVED BY YOUR OWN WORDS:

* You are a BARBARIAN, a TOTALITARIAN and a COWARD;
* You are too STUPID to (among other things) have a proper understanding of personal liberty;
* You have such delusions of grandeur that you think you head a Masonic-like order with 88 degrees of bullshittical nonsense which is so secret that you can brag about it to your enemies, and so powerful that it will free America from Jews only to have it taken over by Meatheads;
* You are a gang-banger who, according to your own report, practices indiscriminate violence and is involved in a turf war with a hispanic gang;
* You are so wealthy that you don't have to work, which then allows you to 'pursue your cause' by means of spending your time as (Hold onto your hats for this one, folks!) a DAY LABORER!

Well, if you ask me, I would say that you have indicted yourself pretty well, and that you are nothing but a violent psychopath and a teller of tall tales and Big Lies, whose testosteronic histrionics are going to land you in jail sooner or later -- probably sooner -- and that in any event you are a danger to the Movement and indeed to anyone who is just walking down the street.

All of which leads me to repeat what I said in my last letter, to wit, I hope you get to Valhalla at the earliest possible date.

-Birdman

 

 

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