Plus questions for David Irving and other quotes supporting nazi involvement in the occult
Note: Jim Marrs should not be
confused with Texe Marrs, a Christian
evangelist who also writes 'conspiracy' books.
One of the early German Workers party members was
[publisher Dietrich] Eckart, often referred to as the spiritual
founder of National Socialism. Eckart saw in Hitler the malleable
leader he had been seeking and was soon introducing the new
member to the right social circles in Munich and his intellectual
friends in the Thule [pronounced too-lee] Society.
Although Eckart's role in metaphysical practices as well as in the foundation of the Nazi party has been marginalized by most historians, it is significant that Hitler clearly understood Eckart's importance. He ended his infamous book Mein Kampf with these words, "And I want also to reckon among [nazi heroes] that man, who, as one of the best, by words and by thoughts and finally by deeds, dedicated his life to the awakening of his, of our nation; Dietrich Eckart.'
As Eckart lay dying in 1923, he said, 'Follow Hitler! He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine', opened his centers in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers. Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any other German.' --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 160-1
[Birdman note: Since I started reading a book on synchronicity a couple of days ago, a couple of interesting synchronicities have popped up. One of them is reading about the theory of Sitchin that mankind is actually a creation of ancient astronauts (see yesterday's posts), and then reading the following in Jim Marrs' book Rule By Secrecy (p 155):]
"To counter this communist threat and the spreading chaos, more than two dozen right-wing nationalist organizations sprang up in Munich alone. Among them was the Thule Society, named after the mythic German homeland of icebound Ultima Thule. The logo of the society was a swastika superimposed over a sword.
Thule, in the minds of German occultists, was a Teutonic Atlantis, a mystical prehistoric island in the northern climes believed to be the home of a long-vanished civilization of extraterrestrials who lost awareness of their origins by interbreeding with humans. Eckhart, Sebottendorff, and their followers believed that the advanced science of Thule had survived through the centuries, handed down by select initiates into this secret and esoteric wisdom. Thulists were continually seeking this wisdom through rituals designed to contact superior beings. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 155
'The inner core within the Thule Group were all Satanists who practiced Black Magic', wrote Trevor Ravenscroft. 'That is to say, they were solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to an awareness of evil and non-human intelligences in the Universe and with achieving a means of communication with the Intelligences. And the Master-Adept of this circle was Dietrich Eckart.
It is well-known that in Munich during those turbulent postwar years, there were several hundred unsolved 'political' murders and kidnappings. 'And it was from among these missing persons, most of whom were either Jews or Communists, that we must look to find the 'sacrificial victims' who were murdered in the rites of 'Astrological Magic' caried out by Dietrich Eckart and the innermost circle of the Thule Gesellschaft' charged Ravenscroft, who claimed it was a 'well-known fact' that the Thulists were a 'Society of Assassins'. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 155
[Birdman note: One cannot help noticing the parallel between this and 'Jewish Ritual Murder'. Were the nazis discovering something the Jews had known for centuries? Or were both simply a part of the satanism which continues to be practiced in the present day, as described by such authors as John DeCamp, Jon Rappoport and Cathy O'Brien, all of whom have been mentioned on these pages?]
Blavatsky, in forming the German branch of the Theosophical Society in 1884, brought her belief in channeling, reincarnation, racial superiority and extraterrestrial visitation to people who later would form the theological basis of Nazism. ... 'The rationale behind many later Nazi projects can be traced back ... to ideas first popularized by Blavatsky,' agreed Levenda, who detailed connections with other European secret organizations. 'We have the Theosophical Society, the OTO [Ordo Templi Orientis or Oriental Templars], [Dr Rudolf Steiner's] Anthroposophical Society and [the Order of] the Golden Dawn all intertwined in incestuous embrace. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 154
Theosophy drew its thinking from the same early philosophers venerated by the secret societies of Freemasonry, the Illuminati and the Round Tables -- Plato and Pythagoras as well as the Egyptian Mystery schools. According to author Nesta Webster, it was evident that Blavatsky also drew heavily from the Hebrew Cabala and Talmud, cementing the connection with the Ancient Mysteries. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy 153
[Birdman note: The 'blight-wing' often links Jews and Freemasons in the same dirt bag, so it is a tad ironic to find that they have the same roots as nazism. But then perhaps that is not so surprising if we reflect that Hitler was probably the grandson of a Rothschild, as Goldberg, Epperson and others have detailed elsewhere.]
The 'Secret Doctrine' imparted to Hitler by Eckart and University of Munich Professor Haushofer was an amalgamation of concepts and philosophies largely stemming from the work of Madam Blavatsky and her Theosophical Society.
Blending Eastern mysticism, occultism, and hidden history, the doctrine concerns the effort to understand man's origins. According to Ravenscroft, 'When the Third Eye [believed by many to be the pineal gland between the eyes] had been opened to a full vision of the Akashic Record [the mystical hidden record of mankind], the initiate [of the Secret Doctrine] became a living witness of the whole evolution of the world and of humanity. Traveling back through tremendous vistas of time, the very spirit origin of the earth and of man was unveiled to him, and he was able to follow the unfolding destiny of mankind through ever-changing conditions of life and cycles of development.'
In this doctrine, nonhuman visitors to Earth long ago produced by genetic manipulation 'divine-human hybrid beings, sort of God-men' divided into seven subraces -- the Rmoahals, Tlavarli, Toltecs, Turanians, Aryans, Akkadians, and Mongols. During this process there were many mistakes, resulting in mutations such as the 'giants' of biblical and Nordic mythology. These races lived through progressive life cycles during the time of fabled Atlantis.
With the destruction of Atlantis, they were scattered around the world and their mental and physical attributes began to degenerate. Their life spans decreased significantly. While their thought processes in the material world sharpened, 'these faculties of thought and sense perception were gained at the price of a total loss of all magical powers over nature and over the life forces in the human organism,' wrote Ravenscroft. With this loss of intuitive powers, these early humans were taught by their creators that everything on Earth was directed by invisible 'gods', and that they should serve these 'gods' unreservedly. 'Above all, they were taught to respect and protect the purity of their blood', he added. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 161-2
It is interesting to note that the term 'Aryan' (a Sanskrit word meaning noble) until the time of Hitler usually referred merely to people using Indo-European languages rather than any race. However, in both scholarly and occult studies the term is also connected to an Indo-European speaking people traceable to prehistoric times. These people were of unknown origins, but due to common language characteristics many scholars believe they came from northern Europe. One branch of these Aryans was located in present-day Iraq and is connected to ancient stories of gods who came from the sky.
A second branch entered India and intermingled with the existing population. They are mentioned in the Hindu Vedas, also in connection with gods who flew in flying machines called vimanas. it all begins to sound eerily similar to the Theosophist belief in extraterrestrial visitors. --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 162
In the summer of 1917 a young Estonian Jew named Alfred Rosenberg was a student in Moscow where he was given a copy of the Protocols by a stranger. Following the Russian Revolution the following year, the anti-Bolshevik Rosenberg fled to Germany where he used the book to gain entry to a secret society in Munich, a move which was to have far-reaching effects for the world.
In late 1918 Rosenberg presented the protocols to an ageing Munich newspaper publisher named Dietrich Eckart. A boozing bon vivant and one of Germany's better known poets at the time, Eckart was enthralled by this plan for world domination. He introduced Rosenberg to fellow members of the Thule Gesellscaft or Thule Society ... --Jim Marrs, Rule By Secrecy, 152
[Birdman comment: It would be ironic if the man responsible for calling the nazis' attention to the Protocols was a Jew; however, the Rosenberg bio posted on this site makes the possibility unlikely.]
Note: When I showed the above quotations to David Irving, he declared that 'none of them is true'. I then posed to him the following questions:
Your statement that none of the quotes is true is
pretty broad, so let me ask you more specific questions. All can
be answered with Yes or No, so that will make it easier for you.
Naturally, if you want to explain your answers, I would be
delighted to hear it. Here are the questions:
* Are you saying that there was no significant occultism among the core nazis? (If you agree that there was significant occultism, where can I read about it?)
* Are you denying the existence of significant occultism in the Thule Society?
* Are you denying the central role of Eckart in the rise of Hitler?
* Are you denying the quoted deathbead statement of Eckart?
* Are you denying the Longinus spear story?
* Are you denying the obvious psychic experiences of Hitler escaping bombs etc described by Degrelle?
* Are you denying that Hess used astrology in conjunction with his 'peace' trip to England?
* Are you denying that Himmler had a circle of 'knights' who met in a castle for occult purposes?
* Are you denying any significant connection between the core nazis and the Theosophists, the Vril Society, the OTO, the Freemasons and other secret societies?
* Are you denying that Hess and Haushofer were members of the Vril Society?
* Are you saying that the Jew Alfred Rosenberg was not responsible for bringing the Protocols to Eckart, who then publicized them?
* Do you deny any credibility to the story that Hitler was the grandson of a Rothschild?
Thanks for your time.
We hope Irving will find time to respond to these questions. Meanwhile, we invite any informed response.
The following quotations refer mostly to the occultism of Hitler and the nazis, but a few refer to other little-known facts about the nazi regime which are embarrassing to either opponents or proponents
Quote of the day (Thanks
"Nevertheless, what has survived the ravages of
time, purposeful destruction and clever forgery,
is the fact that Adolf's father, Alois
Schickelgruber was the illegitimate son of a
female servant, Maria Anna Schickelgruber. Maria
Anna became pregnant while living as a servant in
a Jewish household --a common servant girl fate.
It was assumed by family members and villagers
alike that she'd been impregnated by the head of
the house, Baron Rothschild (Langer, 1973; Payne,
1973); a rumor that the Austrian Secret police
claimed to have confirmed when ordered by
Austrian Chancellor Dollfuss to conduct a
thorough investigation. Later, when Hitler
orchestrated the anschluss of Austria and German
trooped marched in, he had Dollfuss murdered, and
in addition to destroying Dollersheim, ordered
that all documents related to that investigation
"When Adolf Hitler was presented with the results
of Frank's investigation, although denying he was
Jewish, Hitler did admit to Frank that a Jewish
man paid his grandmother money, because the "Jew"
was tricked into believing he was the father of
Alois. Of course this means, if Adolf (or rather
Frank) is to be believed, that his grandmother
was having sex with a Jewish man before she
"Yet another factor suggesting that Alois was
Jewish was the fact that he was nothing like the
peasants of his mother's village where people
intermarried and produced generation and after
generation of peasant farmers. Alois in fact left
the village and sought his fortune. Alois was
supremely self-confident, politically astute, and
ambitious, and with the help of influential
aristocrats in Vienna, Alois became a government
official. Alois presumably inherited these traits
from his father, who was most likely a very
intelligent and successful Jew."
Second quote of the day:
The late Sir. Arthur Bryant, a respected historian and a conservative Christian gentleman, wholly out of sympathy with the Nazi regime which followed the Weimar period, is by reason of those very qualities and traits a most reliable source is dealing with the nature of the Weimar Republic. In his book, Unfinished Victory, which was published just before the outbreak of World War 11, he describes in vivid and evocative language the alien quality of the "200,000 or more Jews" who thronged Berlin. Many of them (he says) had poured into the country during the post-war upheaval. They did not stay poor long. Bryant points out that as late as November 1938, after five years of anti-Jewish legislation, Jews still owned about one-third of all real property in the Reich, most of it acquired during the disastrous inflation of 1923 with foreign funds obtained through their international connections. --from the Rosenberg bio (see link)
Third quote of the day:
Bryant says that although the Jews comprised only one percent of the population, their control of the national wealth and power soon lost all relation to their numbers. In the 1924 Reichstag, a quarter of the Social Democrats were Jews. Jews controlled 57% of the metal trade, 22% of the grain, and 39% of the textile. More then 50% of the members of the Berlin Chamber of Commerce were Jews, as were 1,200 of the 1,474 members of the Stock Exchange. Of the 29 legitimate theaters in Berlin, 23 had Jewish directors. At one point, says Bryant (quoting an anti-Nazi book by E. Mowrer, Germany Puts the Clock Back), so complete was the Jewish monopoly of the Press that "a telephone connection between [sic] three Jews in Ministerial Offices could effect the suspension of any newspaper in the State." --ibid
Fourth quote of the day:
Rosenberg's view is that the various races of man possess racial souls. These racial souls are as enduring and immutable as the racial phenotype-no more and no less. They give rise to cultures, values, religions and political systems which are uniquely congruent with the race in question and are alien to any other race. Miscegenation brings about the degeneration and destruction of such cultures by reason of a kind of schizophrenic condition of racial bastardy. Aryan man has created all the great civilizations of ancient India, ancient Persia, Greece, Rome and, probably, Egypt. Each has ultimately decayed and falled by reason of race-mixing. --ibid
Fifth quote of the day:
"Hitler turned against Christianity from his early teens and sought his destiny in the occult. He later joined with associates who also embraced those teachings, and together they built a state guided by the same occultic principles and goals repeated in today's NA [New Agers, not National Alliance, altho Dr Pierce at one time established the 'Cosmotheist' religion, which I believe is now defunct.]. And no wonder, because he drew on the same esoteric sources as the NAers of today. [How have so many scholars overlooked this all-important key to understanding the Nazi mentality? In the words of the Angeberts' English translator, Lewis A.M. Sumberg, nearly all historians missed the "militant neo-Paganism" and "Gnostic racism" in Nazism "because they have brought conventional outlooks and methodologies to their examination of an unconventional phenomenon." (_The Occult and the Third Reich_, p.x) We must either re-assess the Nazi philosophy with these roots exposed, or be forced to settle for theories which fail to completely explain Nazi priorities. Its unconventional nature lay in "magic thought allied to science and know-how" (Angeberts, p.179) - exactly the hybrid being encouraged today by NA leaders like Peter Russell. Sumberg's observation in 1974 about this blind spot among historians fell mostly on deaf ears, which makes it more difficult now - but more urgent than ever - to recognize that not only is Nazism not dead, we are now surrounded by a "kinder, gentler" version of the same philosophy, sprouted from the same roots and having the same priorities.]" --Delores Cannon (http://www.freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com/thenewage.html)
Sixth quote of the day:
Books by List were found stamped with the insignia of the SS Ahnenerbe (the Nazi Ancestral Research division), indicating that his teachings were studied by SS candidates. (As an aside, Angeberts note that the documents dealing with the Ahnenerbe itself, which they identify as "the Nazi Occult Bureau", are listed in the U.S. National Archives but for some reason are not available to researchers - p.259-260) Both Lanz and List were obsessed with blood purity, the Jewish threat, Grail legends and a "new world order". Both embraced the swastika as a central symbol, borrowing it from Hindu mysticism. --ibid
Seventh quote of the day:
One of the earliest records of Pius XII denouncing the Nazi movement dates back to April 1935, when Pacelli was still a Cardinal: "These ideologues are in fact only miserable plagiarizers who dress up ancient error in new tinsel." (address at Lourdes to 250,000 pilgrims) By recognizing the return of the "ancient error" which the Church had repeatedly battled in the past - occultic Gnosticism - this pope declared himself a formidible enemy in the arena most important to the Nazis: the ancient cosmic-religious War of Light against Darkness. I would submit that his evident knowledge of the occult roots of Nazism disturbed Hitler and his fellow-initiates far more than anything Pius did later, for they were in the process of burying all such traces [see below]. The yet-stronger statements in "Mit Brennender Sorge" two years later probably intensified Nazi fears that their cover was about to be blown. This is the best explanation for the hysterical tirades reportedly directed personally at Pacelli by Hitler, and even a plot in 1940 to kidnap him. The threat from this pope did not end with the Third Reich, because the real "War" was - and is - still in progress. On the contrary, Pius XII was so highly esteemed that at his death (1958), Israel's Foreign Minister Golda Meir eulogized him in the name of the Jewish State, and the Israeli public called for a forest of 860,000 trees to be planted in honor of the estimated number of Jews saved by this Righteous Gentile. Surviving Nazi guardians of the Gnosis must have realized that Pacelli's continuing influence on the Jewish people could do great damage to the future of the Plan if they ever came to comprehend his analysis of Nazism. This is the only reasonable explanation for the total reversal of his reputation within five short years, after unknown parties financed and heavily promoted the reconstructed pseudo-history of Pius XII on the stages of Europe. The ploy succeeded: today, not many Jews are interested in anything this Nazi "deputy" had to say.] --ibid
Eighth quote of the day:
Hitler seemed determined to keep his occult roots hidden from the general public; the groups and individuals he targeted for early elimination were those who knew of those roots and who might expose him (thereby challenging his control of the "Plan"). This would explain why the Nazis burned every available copy of Sebottendorf's book which proclaimed those roots, and why Rudolf Hess's defection to the West in 1941 prompted Hitler to outlaw all remaining occultists in the Third Reich, such as astrologers, mediums and even parlor magicians. (Carr, p.88-100) --ibid
Ninth quote of the day:
In search of this holy blood which contains the coveted god-knowledge, every member of the SS was screened for purity of Aryan lineage, and was taught his duty to father as many racially pure children as possible. Himmler believed that if conception took place in an Aryan cemetery, the resulting child would receive the spirit of "all the dead heroes" buried there; accordingly, lists of Nordic cemeteries were published in the SS periodical _Das Schwarze Korps_. (Sklar, p.114) --ibid
Tenth quote of the day:
Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler first entered the Thule Society orbit as a fighter in the Free Corp, by which time he was already a devoted occultist. He was especially fascinated with reincarnation and karma (individual and racial); he became convinced that he was the reincarnation of King Heinrich I the Fowler (10th c), who spoke to him in his sleep. (Sklar, p.85) He was similarly obsessed with legends of the medieval order of Teutonic knights (a secret brotherhood which required Germanic racial purity for eight generations), the meaning of ancient Nordic runes, the Hindu/Buddhist idea of sacrificial detachment from the consequences of daily life, and the precepts of the _Kautilya Arthasastra_, a cynical, amoral Hindu philosophy utilizing deceit. --ibid
[Birdman comment: Sounds amazingly like the morality commonly attributed to Jews.]
Eleventh quote of the day:
This attitude was shared by the Nazi leadership, and led their rejection of valid astronomy and physics in favor of occult-based pseudo-theories such as the "doctrine of eternal cosmic ice" concocted by Hans Hoerbiger, a mechanical engineer. It was Dietrich Eckart who introduced his protege Hitler to Hoerbiger's work, and its similarity to Thule mythology on new ages birthed from ice was immediately recognized. Hoerbiger himself declared war on "objective science" as "a pernicious invention" (Angeberts, p.183), advocated substituting the "uselessness" of mathematics with a mystical "knowing" of the universe, and targeted Albert Einstein as an archenemy (emphasizing the latter's Jewish origin no less than his pernicious scientific work). ... It was Hoerbigerian weather forecasting (continuing after his death in 1931) that fixed 1941 as a mild winter, convinced the Nazis to leave behind heavy winter gear for the invasion of Russia, and sent them into a record-breaking cold front which marked a turning point in the war. Even after the disaster, no one admitted the bankruptcy of Hoerbiger's theory. --ibid
Twelfth quote of the day:
Alice Bailey ... clearly approved of Hitler's role in destroying the old order and "establishing of a new world order", as Hitler described it in Bailey's own words. (Angeberts, p.155) --ibid
Thirteenth quote of the day:
A virtually unknown component in Nazism is the glorification of homosexuality as a path to higher consciousness and superhuman power. In accordance with widespread occult practice dating back to the Greeks, promotion in the SS brotherhood was conditional on adopting "warrior" or super-masculine homosexuality. The homosexuals who were despised and were sent to the camps were exclusively the effeminate kind. --ibid
Revilo Oliver wrote this
article containing a long discussion of his
non-belief in nazi occultism. The second half of the article (not
relevant to occultism) will be found at http://www.stormfront.org/rpo/POLITIC2.htm
Thanks david h
Birdman responds to the Oliver piece as follows:
Oliver is very knowledgeable, and much of what he says is no doubt true. However, the real question is the degree to which nazism was affected by the occult. While Jim Marrs whom I quoted on the nazi-occult relationship may have quoted White, this does not mean that the information was wrong. If you read the extracts of Leon Degrelle's Hitler bio published in the Barnes Review, you know Degrelle believed that Hitler was in possession of psychic powers, and this dovetails well with what Marrs and several others have said, particularly the long article from which my newer quotes were obtained, and which quotes I have added to the file of Marrs quotes. Also it is well-known, as I understand it, that other nazis dabbled in the occult, including Hess and Himmler. Furthermore, while Oliver attempts to dismiss Theosophy as BS, I urge you to read the article posted on my site (in Articles of Others) on the investigations concerning the book 'Occult Chemistry' at http://www.light-mission.org/paranormalt.html . Blavatsky and her cohorts obviously knew something, shall we say, fantastically important, and somewhat the same may be said of 'the great beast 666' Aleister Crowley. My point is that Hitler partisans like Irving and (probably) Oliver are embarrassed about the nazi links to occultism, and want to downplay it. For me, I think they underestimate its importance and may well be wrong that it was a negative thing.
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