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>--- John Bryant <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: >> Walter: >> >> It does rather seem that you are quite as dishonest >> as you attempt to make Carto out to be. I say this >> because I see that you are willing to have Carto >> denounced from pillar to post, but you are unwilling >> to allow my reasoned refutation (and one, I might >> add, without those 4-letter words over which you >> make so much noise). >> >> I would guess that part of the reason you do not >> wish to allow my refutation is that you think that >> the Palindromic Professor's denunciation of Carto is >> the Final Word. Well, guess what? It isn't, as I >> shall show below. >> >> Let me begin by restating what should be intuitively >> obvious to the most inastute observer: If Carto did >> all the bad stuff Oliver says he did, along with all >> the bad stuff everybody else says he did, it is >> still reasonable to say that allowing this bad stuff >> was a fair exchange for Carto's services, which have >> been not only invaluable, but unmatched by any other >> individual, altho plenty have tried to be what Carto >> in fact is. Just as when Lincoln was told Grant was >> a drunk and responded "Well, tell me what brand he >> drinks and I will send a barrel to each of my other >> generals", so when told Carto is a thief, I say, "I >> am willing to let him keep his loot in exchange for >> what he has done and continues to do for America." >> Even Oliver took somewhat this same attitude -- he >> was willing to let what he believed to be thievery >> by Carto go without public comment because Carto was >> doing something valuable. So the bottom line is >> that Oliver and I am in agreement about Carto on the >> real issue, which is, What is to be done? >> >> But did Carto really do all these bad things? >> Before passing judgment, I would like to hear the >> other side. (I have found that when you start >> asking for the other side, you often find some very >> interesting -- and exculpatory -- information [something which revisionists above all others ought to appreciate!!!].) >> Actually it is rather easy to think of explanations >> for Carto's behavior. For example, the reason he >> did not follow thru on his 50K pledge to the NYA may >> have been that he simply didn't have the money, tho >> at the time of the pledge he thought he would be >> able to get it. All the rest of the bad behavior >> (forged documents, etc) may simply have been an >> effort to cover his ass -- something not unknown to >> even the Flawless Walter Mueller, as I pointed out >> in an earlier communication. >> >> But the most exonerating thing for Carto about the >> whole affair is that, in the many years which have >> elapsed since the incident Oliver discusses, Carto >> has performed far better and more usefully than >> anyone else, while most of Carto's critics -- Mark >> Weber & Co in particular -- have performed >> miserably. At the very minimum, therefore, we may >> say of Carto, "He may be an SOB, but he is OUR SOB." >> >> Now having dealt with the main issue, let me respond >> to the jibes which you make against me personally. >> In particular, you say in some of the most awkward >> and mockable phraseology I have encountered since >> the pre-Cambrian period: >> >> >I have said that before too. Unless you crawl out >> >behind your computer screen and join me on the >> street, >> >you ain't got much to bargain with. I do not >> >compromise my principles for anything. And here is >> the >> >simple reason why - because I am a real guy. I have >> no >> >bird sitting on my head, running a website, because >> I >> >am busy running reality. ... >> >Reality is that the Jews have destroyed the very >> >fabric of this country. They have brought us >> >multi-culturism and they successfully have almost >> >destroyed Western civilization. See, with me, when >> I >> >turn off my computer, it's fighting the real enemy >> of >> >flesh and blood and two legs and lots of money. So, >> >Mr. Birdman, when you can show me that your life >> has >> >been destroyed, your family has been threatened and >> >your home has been set on fire, then you can tell >> me >> >what to do. For now, you are just one of those who >> >runs a website and once the Jews turn that off, all >> >you have left is your little birds. >> >> >> In response I would be most interested to know what >> you do 'on the street'. Taking potshots at >> Foreskinners? Painting swastikas on their houses of >> worship? Picketing the Izzy consulate? Let me put >> it this way: Virtually all such 'street work' is >> either infantile or counterproductive, with the >> possible exception of handing out literature. The >> war that is going on is a war for the minds of our >> people. Street work is irrelevant, not that you >> would ever admit it. (In fact, if Jews have set >> fire to your home, etc, as you apparently are >> claiming, my suggestion is that you need to do >> HOMEwork rather than street work.) In fact, your >> denigration of my work -- which I have often been >> told by my readers is an inspiration to them -- >> appears to be a feeble attempt to raise your own >> internet efforts above mine. In respect to that I >> would suggest that your failure is both notable and >> ironic. >> >> Now, on a separate matter you remark: >> >> I am >> >overwhelmed with responses and now, the Carto side >> is >> >trying to weigh in. Here is the deal. Unless the >> Carto >> >side is as civilized in their responses as Mark >> Weber, >> >I won't print it. Remember, Walter F. Mueller and >> the >> >Patriot Letter is NOT a democracy. I decide what's >> >being printed and what is not. And please, don't >> give >> >me your phony pleads of fairness. >> >> While the above is not addressed to me personally, >> it does not take a rocket scientist to see that it >> is a cover for your dishonesty in failing to allow >> persons such as myself from airing reasoned >> objections to you. (I shall of course air them on >> my website, so word will probably get around, in >> spite of your censorship.) Let me put it this way: >> I plan to post our entire correspondence on my >> website, while you have censored mine for your >> mailing list. So who is it that has something to >> hide? Who is it that is being dishonest? The >> questions answer themselves. >> >> -Birdman *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/28/03 at 10:47 PM Walter Mueller wrote: >Dear Mr. Bryant, > >It seems to be a common practice among people like you >to be very personal and call people by their first >name, even though they are not part of your family. > >My writings seem to you a bit odd because I am a >naturalized American of German heritage. I am just >thrilled at your defense of Willis Carto. Anyone who >has seen your website knows that you love the Jews >and, in fact, sing their praises. So what does that >make Willis Carto? > >I will forward this response in part to my list, only >because it is just too good to pass up when somebody >makes my point. > >And just like all Willis Carto supporters, you make >judgement calls that are not yours to make. And like >all of them, you don't really read my Patriot Letters. >If you did, you would know that I despise people who >abuse my heritage for their causes. > >I do not paint swastikas on people's houses. In the >contrary, I am the one who takes them down. > >So, please, do not e-mail me anymore, and I have taken >you off my mailing list as well. Go play with your >birds while we grown ups deal with the real thing. > >Walter F. Mueller >"The truth is back in business" > --------------- Date: 6/29/03 3:31 AM To: Walter Mueller <email@example.com> From: John Bryant Copy: Adelaide Institute, Mark Weber, Joseph M Keith Blind Copy: Subject: Re: Patriot Letter: A blast from the past - Prof. Robert Faurrison responds Seig heil Herr Mueller! Ja wohl! What a delightful and amusing letter you have written! It so well illustrates the bankruptcy of what you have said to me. For example: * You tell me now that I must address you in formal European style, apparently indicating not only that you are none too hip to the informality of American and Internet culture, but that your dislike of me has become so intense that the tightness of your anus is hurting your hemorrhoids. Gee, Herr Mueller, perhaps you can get some Preparation H before you bust a blood vessel. * Next you tell me that I love Jews and sing their praises. Well, that is certainly one of the more amusing statements that has come from your pen, and maybe there is something to it, but I would have to respond: "Ask not whether I love Jews; ask only whether I am right." Somehow I don't think you would do that, now would you? * Next you tell us that you are going to forward my letter to your mailing list IN PART because it 'makes your point'. I guess that means that forwarding the WHOLE letter would perhaps NOT make your point. But not to worry -- maybe with a little selective editing you can get something like "Judas went and hanged himself ... Go and do thou likewise." Hey, it's a great opportunity to hone your dishonesty! * Next you say I am making judgment calls that 'are not mine to make'. Hey, what a cute observation! Now what, precisely, are the judgement calls that 'are not mine to make'? Let me guess -- I'll bet that it's the judgement calls that DISAGREE WITH YOURS. Hey, I'm right! Do I win the fuzzy bear? * Your next accusation is that I abuse your heritage for my causes. I can't even fathom what you might mean by that. Such a wild accusation makes it clear that you simply have nothing of substance to say against me. * You say you TAKE DOWN swastikas??? Oh mein Gotterdamerung! Does this mean you LOVE JEWS????? * Next you tell me not to email you any more. Ah, the mark of the hypocrite! You got into an argument and got your butt thoroughly whipped, so you have to tell the guy who kicked your ass not to write you any more because (whine) it just might hurt the old ego too much (sniff). Well, I'll tell you what I'll do, Herr Mule. If you don't write me, then I won't write you. But on the other hand, if you DO write me, you are going to get a letter back, and the letter will be posted on my website. Fair enuf? * And finally, you insult me yet again by implying that you are a grownup who is dealing with the 'real thing' while I am just a kid playing with his birds. Well, Walter baby, if you possess so much mature grown-upness, why is it that you don't have the courage to send my complete letters to your mailing list? I'll tell you why -- you are a COWARD who got his BUTT WHIPPED by a KID that PLAYS WITH BIRDS. So much for being 'grown up'. Have an ice day, Herr 'truth is outa business' Wally-Boy. -Birdman [Mueller attacks the Birdman with an incredible collection of falsehoods -- probably deliberate -- and does this, like the coward he is, behind Birdman's back:] > From: Walter Mueller <firstname.lastname@example.org> > Date: 2003/06/29 Sun PM 10:15:08 EDT > To: email@example.com > Subject: Patriot Letter: Wrapping up with M. C. Piper, James von Brunn, Harvey Taylor, Stan Hess and more....... [snip] > And now back to our discussion on my call to action. > Only a few days ago, I had not even heard of some of > the people I am hearing from today. One was John > Byrant, aka: The Birdman. I've checked his website > several times and I do not like it. But don't take my > word for it, check it yourself at > > http://www.thebirdman.org > > Mr. Byrant is a Libertarian by his own admission and > he condones child pornography, drug use and illegal > immigration. He is very deragatory towards women and > speaks ill of Dr. William Pierce. He praises the Jews > of being smart, sophisticated, etc. Add on now that he > turns out to be one of Willis Carto's most vehement > supporters. My mom used to say, "Tell me who your > friends are and I tell you who you are". Truer words > have never been spoken. > > I have never met the guy, but, in his defense of > Willis Carto, which I will print below - only for the > reason to show just how low Willis Carto's defenders > stoop - he says that I probably paint Swastikas on > other people's homes or synagogues and he calls people > of European descent "Foreskinners". > > Now here I say it again. I am actually the one who > takes off swastikas from the streets wherever I see > them. I am a vehement opponent of those who use Third > Reich paraphernalia in such sick and demented way. > Adolf Hitler would turn in his grave if he would see > how some of the people misuse one of the most > honorable eras in German history. > > Mr. Byrant likes to use the word foreskinners a lot. > He doesn't mean it in a good way. Once, Ingrid Rimland > forwarded a great article about that very subject. But > here is my personal opinion. The way one could tell a > Jew from an Aryan in the old days was whether or not > the boy was circumsized. Today, the Jews have > successfully convinced the American public to engage > in one their inhuman rituals, cutting off a piece of > skin from a little boys penis. > > It is good to see that Willis Carto has defenders like > this, because it reiterates my opinion about him: [Snip: Following this, Mueller quotes Birdman's defense of Carto.] [Mark F defends the Birdman:] Mr. Mueller: I think your latest "The Truth Is Back" comments were quite revolting. While I have enjoyed many of your writings in the past, which I have seen posted at LSN and elsewhere, I have to genuinely wonder about what has prompted your latest ad hominem invectives, aimed at people whose honest goals appear remarkably similar to your own stated goals. I guess I'm in a position to criticize you as well, since Jewish hatemongers once attempted to firebomb my home and actually broke out my windows and damaged my motorcycle, with such being your criteria necessary for criticism as stated. In any event, I would like to comment on what you have stated about Mr. Bryant (or, Mr. "Byrant," as you call him) and Mr. Carto. Now, I have never met either of these individuals. But I will say this: Your comments appear to be without substance and are no better than the muck-raking statements I hear screamed by so many fanatical Jews at the top of their lungs. You insult first and don't bother to ask questions later. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course; but your comments go way beyond a mere opinion and into what one can only interpret as being outright slander and libel. If Mr. Bryant and Mr. Carto don't pursue this end, it just demonstrates to me that they may be a bit more civilized than you care to believe. You have said Mr. "Byrant [sic] is a libertarian by his own admission...." This is true, to the best of my knowledge, from what I've seen at his website. Now, you go on to say that "he condones child pornography, drug use, and illegal immigration." Now, that's a bald-faced lie. I don't know where you get your facts, but I certainly don't see them coming from anything Mr. Bryant has written. I'd like to see your proof on any of these matters. I've never seen anything that would suggest that he would ever condone "child pornography" nor "illegal [non-White] immigration," and to suggest such is an outright defamatory lie - something I'd expect to hear coming from the mouth of the ADL but not from someone who is supposedly pro- Gentile, as you "claim" to be. You then say that Mr. Bryant is "very deragatory [sic] towards women and speaks ill of Dr. William Pierce." I don't know that he does speak "deragatory [sic] towards women," as you say. Perhaps, he is a bit of a horny toad, as many men are (take Ben Franklin, for instance, who wrote a book about how to keep a mistress); but I understand he is also married and is probably more decent to his wife than many husbands are, though I can't say that for certain, obviously. And as for the way that Mr. Bryant "speaks ill of Dr. William Pierce," it is no worse than the manner in which you speak of Carto. In fact, many of his comments about Dr. Pierce are very similar to your comments of Carto - that Pierce got rich off the backs of poor Whites. (And, by the way, didn't Dr. Pierce get his start in Carto's National Youth Alliance, which you mentioned? Would there have been a Pierce if not a Carto first?) In this respect, Bryant's comments of Pierce are no worse than your comments of Carto.(And, to be quite honest, despite that I also admire what Dr. Pierce has accomplished, I must note that Mr. Bryant's comments are probably more honest about the affairs of Pierce than yours are of Carto.) You say that Bryant "praises the Jews of being smart..." I don't know that Mr. Bryant necessarily "praises the Jews," but I'm certain he has on occasion noted that there are smart Jews. And I'm sure there are. Just because many Jews who I've come across in my life time are dishonorable people who are mean-spirited and hateful doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't smart too. Just because the triumvirate Jews of Stalin, Trotsky, and Lenin were wicked and incredibly evil people doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't smart too. If Jews are stupid, as one would logically assume from your fallacious argument, why are they running the world; yet we're left cursing our Jewish Masters for destroying it? From there, you go on to say that, because Mr. Bryant dared to say a decent word on Mr. Carto's behalf, that he is even more disreputable. Now, I have one question here: Have you ever bothered to send Mr. Carto a letter and asked for his take on the matter? As stated previously, I'm no friend of Mr. Carto. But I'm also no enemy of his. And the same can be said of Mr. Weber, with whom I have no qualms. Last year, I sent a letter to the Barnes Review (at P.O. Box 15877; Washington, DC 20003) and asked them to forward it to Mr. Carto, asking for his take on this matter. I sent no money, just a simple letter. A week later, I actually received a response. Now, I don't know how old Mr. Carto is, but I know he's pretty old. He is probably at least as old as Dr. Ed Fields (who is a genuinely decent person and whose newspaper "The Truth at Last" is arguably the best Right-wing newspaper out there, and often sells 50,000+ per issue). And I know Mr. Carto is a busy person too; he has to be, since from what I understand he had to sell his very home to pay for the IHR's lawsuit and its Jewish attorneys. Yet Mr. Carto took the time to respond to my inquiry. This is what he wrote me: July 29, 2002 "Thank you for the inquiry. I want to congratulate you as being one of a kind. It is amazing how many people will accept gossip and never inquire as to the facts. "The enclosed is what you are after and if you have any questions after perusing this data, please don't hesitate to ask further questions.... "Best wishes, "Willis A. Carto" Now, aside from this brief little letter, he sent me a large informational packet, filled with many documents and other items about his ordeal. It was interesting to see what he had to say. I will not get in the middle of this long-standing argument between the IHR and Carto, because I would honestly like to see them both succeed in educating many people to what actually occurred in the past, so that they might see where this society is heading if present trends continue. Indeed, my argument is neither with Mr. Weber nor Mr. Carto (nor Mr. Bryant nor Mr. Mueller, for that matter). I will save my anger in a nice little place and keep it for those who genuinely deserve it, and it is really none of the above. But back to your comments on Mr. Bryant: in concluding your jeremiad, you state that "he calls people of European descent "Foreskinners". (sic) This is another lie on your behalf, as he was distinctly referring to Jews when he said "foreskinners," not Europeans. (Quite frankly, I think male genital mutilation should be illegal in the U.S., just as female genital mutilation should be. But that's another matter altogether.) In conclusion, to be honest, I like most of Mr. Bryant's website. I don't visit it frequently, but it offers a lot. He often posts some of the more controversial articles that are of general interest to Gentiles. He demonstrates that the egalitarians' dream is nothing but a pipe dream - completely hollow when you look at it in a logical manner. You say his website is so "terrible," yet you don't seem to mind him posting your comments there and tell everyone that they're there. If he's so terrible, as you claim, why not the resentment to this? For far too long, the Right-wing, for a lack of better term, has hopelessly fallen upon itself. Why is this? It's because of people who speak first and ask questions later. It is because of people who are only too eager to attack their fellow Gentiles because they know that they can get away with it. If Mr. Bryant were a Jew or acted like one, you would be at the court house and, if not in jail, would be paying a hefty fine. But I think he is a better person than that. There are so many things that are plaguing this society that it behooves me when I read such long-winded diatribes that are directed against Gentiles, as you write. I see similar rantings by Mr. Harold Covington, whose goal it seems is to belittle the entire Right-wing but himself, which leads me to the belief that he does this so he can somehow become Supreme Leader of the New World Order or is acting as a government agent whose intent it is to dismantle the Right through his demonizing of all other so-called "leaders." Perhaps, if he would criticize Jews more, rather than Gentile "leaders," I might think differently. But sometimes I genuinely have to wonder what the purpose of all this bickering is about. That is all I have to say. Best regards, Mark [Mark's friend Joe responds to the above:] Well said. I have known Willis Carto for over 20 years, and can say that he has always been and remains committed to our common cause. [Mark replies to Joe:] Date: 6/30/03 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Attn: Mr. Mueller - about your comments on Mr. Bryant and Mr. Carto Well, Joe, maybe you can tell that to Mr. Mueller. He is unable to respond to my comments in a critical or civil manner, so now he accuses me of watching "kiddie porn" because I dared to defend Mr. Bryant, who is entirely innocent of the asinine accusations of which Mr. Mueller accused him as well. The fact that Mr. Bryant and I (and Mr. Carto, for that matter, as well) have so far refrained from engaging in a class-action suit against the slanderous and libelous Mr. Mueller is a testimonial of our strong-willed ability to withstand mindless rantings of a lesser fellow yet not put ourselves on the same level as him. Mr. Mueller seems like a pixilated simpleton at best - or maybe that's giving him undue credit. Quite frankly, I think Mr. Mueller either has a screw loose or is one of those government agents whose sole task it is to cause dissension among the Right-wing. He seems to lash out at anyone with his jeremiads. There are always misunderstandings and different points of view, but his insipid comments and unfounded accusations are unprecedented! Having this newsletter of his, it would serve the government well to cause dissension and prevent the Right-wing from uniting. He obviously is incapable of responding to my comments in a realistic manner, just as he could not respond to Mr. Bryant's either. What else would be Mr. Mueller's motives? Perhaps, that's where he gets the funding for his newsletter - from Big Brother and his Zionist Masters - as he seems to be serving their interest and no other. Unlike Dr. Ed Fields who has a decent newspaper "The Truth at Last," Clay's magazine "Free American," or your newsletter, I have to wonder about this Mr. Mueller and this rag he puts out. All of your media are informative and helpful, but Mr. Mueller's...? "Community Action"--is that what it's called? I've never seen it or heard of it until now. Yet he says it has a circulation of 20K. I wonder if he also spews such mindless drivel as we see him babbling about online in his magazine as well? That's probably why no one has ever mentioned it to me. I wonder if it's similar to that one newspaper which focuses on UFOs and "Area 51," since Mr. Mueller is obviously living in a fantasy-land. Best regards, Mark To return to Part 1, CLICK HERE
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