Antony Sutton Interview
Anthony Sutton On 'Skull
& Bones,' US Banks Financing
Hitler, & 'Trance-Formation'
Antony Sutton, is the author of 26 books, many of which
can be purchased on-line at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.
Liberty House Press at 1-800-343-6180 has copies of
America's Secret Establishment and Best Enemy Money
Can Buy for sale.
The following interview with Mr. Sutton is dated July 6,
Antony C. Sutton, 74, has been persecuted but never
prosecuted for his research and subsequent publishing of
his findings. His mainstream career was shattered by his
devotion towards uncovering the truth. In 1968, his
Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development
was published by The Hoover Institute at Stanford
University. Sutton showed how the Soviet state's
technological and manufacturing base, which was then
engaged in supplying the North Vietnamese the
armaments and supplies to kill and wound American
soldiers, was built by US firms and mostly paid for by
the US taxpayers. From their largest steel and iron plant,
to automobile manufacturing equipment, to precision
ball-bearings and computers, basically the majority of the
Soviet's large industrial enterprises had been built with
the United States help or technical assistance.
Professor Richard Pipes, of Harvard, said in his book,
Survival Is Not Enough: Soviet Realities and America's
Future (Simon & Schuster;1984): "In his three-volume
detailed account of Soviet Purchases of Western
Equipment and Technology . . . [Antony] Sutton comes
to conclusions that are uncomfortable for many
businessmen and economists. For this reason his work
tends to be either dismissed out of hand as 'extreme' or,
more often, simply ignored."
The report was too much and Sutton's career as a
well-paid member of the academic establishment was
under attack and he was told that he "would not survive".
His work led him to more questions than answers. "Why
had the US built-up it's enemy? Why did the US build-up
the Soviet Union, while we also transferred technology to
Hitler's Germany? Why does Washington want to
conceal these facts?"
Sutton, following his leads, proceeded to research and
write his three outstanding books on Wall Street: and
FDR; and the Rise of Hitler; and The Bolshevik
Revolution. Then, someone sent Antony a membership
list of Skull and Bones and--"a picture jumped out". And
what a picture! A multigenerational foreign-based secret
society with fingers in all kinds of pies and roots going
back to 'Illuminati' influences in 1830's Germany.
For the full story, check-out Sutton's book America's
Secret Establishment, in print for 14 years and available
from Liberty House Press, 1-800-343-6180.
Skull And Bones
Here, in a recent e-mail interview, are Antony Sutton's
own reflections and answers to questions from myself
and other researchers.
Pre-interview note from Antony Sutton: Remember all
my papers on this are in deep storage 1000 miles away
and cannot be accessed and I've not even thought about
S&B for 15 years. I had no idea that any interest had
been aroused out there. I know the book is a steady seller
from the royalty reports; but that is all. For the last 10
years I have been in complete seclusion working on
future technology...I'm more engineer than historian. The
only visitors I've had or meetings have been with
three-letter agency people, who arrive on the doorstep
unannounced and complain I am hard to find. Big
Brother has the ability apparently to find anyone. Nothing
mysterious about this, I just dislike publicity and social
interaction. . . . You will see from the Dutch TV episode
that my work still upsets the "powers that be" so these
are merely reasonable precautions.
KM - Can you tell the story of how you learned of Skull
& Bones? And how you felt?
AS - I knew nothing of S&B until I received a letter in
the early 80's asking if I would like to look at a genuine
membership list. For no real reason I said yes. It was
agreed to send the package by Federal Express and I
could keep it for 24 hours, it had to be returned to the
safe. It was a "black bag" job by a family member
disgusted with their activities. For the benefit of any S&B
members who may read and doubt the statement; the
membership list is in two volumes, black leather bound.
Living members and deceased members in separate
volumes. Very handsome books. I spent all night in
Kinko's, Santa Cruz , copied the entire volumes and
returned within the 24 hour period. I have never released
any copies or identified the source. I figured each copy
could be coded and enable S&B to trace the leak. How
did I feel? I felt then (as I do now} that these
"prominent" men are really immature juveniles at heart.
The horrible reality is that these little boys have been
dominant in their influence in world affairs. No wonder
we have wars and violence. Skull and Bones is the
symbol of terrorist violence, pirates, the SS Deaths Head
Division in WW Two, labels on poison bottles and so on.
I kept the stack of xerox sheets for quite a while before I
looked at them--when I did look--a picture jumped out,
THIS was a significant part of the so called
establishment. No wonder the world has problems!
KM - What is the percentage of active members?
AS - I haven't checked for 15 years...it used to be about
one quarter. With the rise of the Bush dynasty it will
increase somewhat, as they climb on the bankwagon.
The Demos had their turn with Harriman in the 40's and
KM - How many active members are there?
AS - Usually about 600 alive at any one time . . . recently
KM- What is your take on the grandfather clock that
each member allegedly receives?
AS - They do get a clock I've had that confirmed and
you will see it in the photos in ASE (AMERICA'S
SECRET ESTABLISHMENT). Might be symbolic,
perhaps to state their organization goes on timelessly.
KM - Has Skull and Bones lost its clout?
AS - Well look at the recent fundraiser for George
Bush...Republicans are stuffing money into his
pockets...I suggest members recently got behind one of
their own and decided to push George all out for
president--and Democrats can't do a thing because
Democrat Bones are not going to allow the Party to use
the ultimate weapon--George's membership in a foreign
KM - What do you know of George ' W.' Bush?
AS - He is a third generation Bonesman. My personal
impression is that he doesn't have the drive of his father
or the skills of his grandfather....--but I could be very
wrong. He can beat anyone hands down--EXCEPT
VENTURA. If Bush handlers allow a face to face debate
between Bush and Ventura, Ventura will win. Remember
Ventura has admitted to his so-called "sins". Bush has a
closet full waiting to emerge. People are getting bored
with cover ups and spin. 2000 may see the end of the
Bones influence or--reality that these Bones people are
KM - Is the 'name' of the German group known?
AS - Almost certainly Illuminati.
KM - Some people say that there are other 'cells'; what
do you think?
AS - There are many other secret societies. I've only
looked at S&B. Unfortunately no historian will keep his
job if he tries to explore conspiracy...this is taboo for the
American Historical Association. Sooner or later outsiders
will take a look. I've long thought that S&B fits the legal
definition of a conspiracy and needs to be officially
investigated. Yes there should be other cells. No secret
society worth anything is going to keep its inner actions
written down on paper. If the gigantic electronic
monitoring apparatus is for national security purposes;
then it should be monitoring these people 24 hours a day.
KM - What are your thoughts on Wolf's Head? Scroll &
Key? And the other Senior societies at Yale?
AS - Wolfs Head, Scroll and Key seem to be pale
imitations of S&B, but they have the same objective of
deliberately building discrimination into a society. I
listened to Jesse Ventura last night and he made the point
that the Founding Fathers intended for CITIZENS to
represent the people. I agree, a trucker, a farmer, a
teacher--represents the people not a bunch of
professional pols or a secret society like S&B. All these
societies place their own members ahead of the pack and
give preference to their own members--this is
discrimination par excellence.
KM - Have you read Cathy O'Brian's book
Trance-Formation Of America? What do think of it?
AS - The book does not contain one piece of hard
physical evidence.. I think Cathy O'Brien BELIEVES
SHE IS TELLING THE TRUTH . . . but remember that
Mark Phillips is a skilled neuro-linguistic-programmer.
Another point that really concerns me is this...where did
this story originate? It originated in Communist Chinese
Intelligence and Mark Phillips had a contractual
relationship with the ChiComs. This could be an attempt
to destabilize the US. No doubt these Washington pols
are fully capable of these weird practices, just look at
Bohemian Grove but that doesn't mean that the book is
an accurate portrayal. If the book is credible I would
think the police would have raided Bohemian Grove long
My best guess is that the Chinese picked up whispers of
Washington scandals and blew them out of proportion for
their own purposes. This is a GUESS...I don't know.
One thing that puzzled me, with all these sexual
shenanigans how do Washington politicians find time to
do anything else? According to the book this is a full time
occupation for Senator Byrd and others.
KM - What did your study of elites, economics, secrecy
and technology do for your career?
AS-Depends what you mean by "career"? By
conventional standards I am an abject failure. I've been
thrown out of two major Universities (UCLA and
Stanford), denied tenure at Cal State Los Angeles. Every
time I write something, it appears to offend someone in
the Establishment and they throw me to the wolves. On
the other hand I've written 26 books, published a couple
of newsletters and so on...even more important I've
never compromised on the truth And I don't quit. In
material terms...hopeless failure. In terms of discovery...I
think I've been successful. Judge a man by his enemies.
William Buckley called me a "jerk". Glenn Campbell,
former Director of the Hoover Institution, Stanford called
me "a problem".
KM - Do you believe that there has been suppression of
technology? Has it been major or minor?
AS - Yes there has been suppression but its going to be
impossible to suppress the new emerging paradigm.
KM - The Federal Reserve, the House of Morgan, House
of Rothschild and Skull and Bones are they related?
AS - Best source for this is a book by me THE
FEDERAL RESERVE CONSPIRACY, 1995 CPA, PO
Box 596, Boring OR 97007.
KM- On Skull and Bone's influencing John Dewey and
Horace Mann; are there good source materials to follow
AS - Depends what you want to find. You could explore
the 10(?) volume works of Dewey... outrageous
Hegelianism, the state is supreme, the individual merely a
pawn to be trained. This is the basis of our 'educational
system"...or you could go and explore the members of
S&B who brought the system to the US. This trained
"sausage mind" outlook has thoroughly permeated our
universities--that's why we have the peer review
system...we are all supposed to think alike and find the
same answers. This political correctness garbage is
another step to total thought control.
AH - Did any of Hitler's economic policies threaten the
interests of the international bankers, and if so did that
play a role in his downfall?
AS - Hitler's economic policies were OK'd by the
bankers right through the war...ITT, Chase, Texaco and
others were operating in Nazi-held France as late as
1945. In fact Chase in Paris was trying to get Nazi
accounts as late as 1944. When we got to Germany in
May 1945, I remember seeing a (bombed-out)
Woolworth store in Hamburg and thinking, "What's
Woolworth doing in Nazi Germany?" While we were
bombed and shelled it was "business as usual" for Big
Business. Try the Alien Custodian Papers. See my BEST
ENEMY MONEY CAN BUY for more information.
Union Banking is very important. I made a documentary
for Dutch National TV some years ago. It got all the way
through the production process to the Dutch TV
Guide...at the last minute it was pulled and another film
substituted. This documentary has proof of Bush
financing Hitler-- documents. Maybe my Dutch friends
will still get it viewed, but the apparatus reaches into
KM - What is the story that was going to be told on
Dutch TV? And what is the story of it's censorship?
AS - Couple of years back, a Dutch TV production
company from Amsterdam--under contract to Dutch
National TV--came to US to make documentary on
S&B. They went to the Bones Temple and other places
and interviewed people on East Coast. On West Coast,
they interviewed myself and one other person. I saw
extracts from the original and it is a good professional
job. They had documents linking Bush family and other
S&B members to financing Hitler through Union Banking
of New York and its Dutch correspondent bank. More
than I have in WALL STREET AND THE RISE OF
HITLER. The first version was later upgraded into a two
part documentary and scheduled for showing this last
March. It was pulled at last minute and has never been
AH - Who has been financing Milosevic, and what role
has the international banking community played in the
AS - I haven't looked at this one. Of course the notorious
Black Hand society is located in the Balkans. See WW
DG - What is the importance of your work on Skull and
AS - The potential is extraordinary. IF we find that secret
societies are indeed significant the entire history of the
last two centuries will have to be re-written. At this point
in 1999, the potential has not been explored by others
and I've moved back to my original interest--technology.
Apparently people see some merit in the work. It is never
advertised. It is an underground word of mouth
distribution but has sold steadily from 1986 to date.
Every month I get a royalty check, so I know it is selling.
But my original enthusiastic statement has not been
KM - What do you see for the future?
AS - Chaos, confusion and ultimately a battle between
the individual and the State. The individual is the
stronger; and will win. The state is a fiction sanctified by
Hegel and his followers to CONTROL the individual.
Sooner or later people will wake up. First we have to
dump the trap of right and left, this is a Hegelian trap to
divide and control. The battle is not between right and
left; it is between us and them. The message is getting
through. ASE has sold for 15 years, small but steady. No
advertising. Its an underground work. But the breadth of
interest is amazing. From Black Africa, to Russia (12,000
copies), right, left...it cuts across all ethnic, political,
social lines...The spirit of God is within us as individuals.
Skull & Bones represents death. It has no life spirit and
pretends that the State "is the march of God on earth".
The thinking of immature juveniles, deadly and
destructive and has almost totally infected Washington.
What to do? Find yourself and then go to work.....tell
your friends and put out the message. The answer is
within you. _____ Antony Sutton, is the author of 26
books, many of which can be purchased on-line at
Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Liberty House Press at
1-800-343-6180 has copies of America's Secret
Establishment and Best Enemy Money Can Buy for sale.
New York Editors . . . In talking to a magazine in New
York that is working on a feature story on George ' W '
Bush and was thinking of doing a piece on S&B. I asked
how about a sidebar on Antony Sutton? After getting
responses peppered with phrases such as; "Someone is
claiming he's a John Bircher" and; Here is what one
editor (who shall remain nameless) had to say about
"Liberty House was/is a right wing publishing company
located in Billings, Montana. Anthony Sutton was a
research fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution. Among
many other claims, Sutton's book accuses Skull and
Bones of funding and encouraging "the Maxist/Leftist
'60s revolution"....and diverting attention by drawing
students into disarmament and/or environmental groups
and issues. Although there seems to be some real info in
his book, it reads like a classic text of right-wing
propaganda, filled with hyperbole and unsourced
allegations" Antony Sutton's response:
What's wrong with these editors? I was thrown out of the
Hoover Institution by the CIA types....I am definitely
persona non-grata. Director Glenn Campbell actually
threatened me: "you will not survive."
Some right winger!! I've never been a member of the
Birch Society or any society come to that. I'd like to have
that Editor say that to my face. They're sick! Get his
comments on the above...and have him come up with
some proof. What's the legal definition of slander...it has
to be untrue and malicious. Do they have any money?
When it comes right down to it the NY people didn't
even read my book...else they would know that I see the
right-left approach as a Hegelian trap...as for lack of
evidence Ill leave that to the readers. On second thought
they probably never heard of Hegel. When Lenin
referred to 'useful idiots" he must have had these people