This week on the Forum we talk with David Duke. Mr. Duke is the best known and most politically active racist in the United States. His extremist and political activities are substantial. In 1967 he first joined the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at the age of 17. In 1970 he formed the white youth alliance, while a student at Louisiana State University. In 1975 he started his own chapter of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the self-proclaimed grand wizard. In 1980 he founded the National Association for the Advancement of White People. In the late 80ís to 90ís he ran unsuccessfully for Senator and Governor from Louisiana, and for the President of the United States. In 1997 he was elected to head the Republican Party of St. Tammany Parish in Louisiana, and now speaks at meetings of the National Alliance, the largest neo nazi organization in the United States. Mr. Duke also runs a white racialist web site
HateWatch: "Mr. Duke, in 1970, while a student at Louisiana State University, you started a campus group called the White Student Alliance which was affiliated with the neo-nazi National Socialist White Peopleís Party. As part of your activism with this group you dressed up, or would dress up, as a nazi stormtrooper with a swastika armband and sell copies of Mein Kampf on campus. What attracted you to Neo-Nazism to the extent that you would tell a student newspaper, and I am quoting, "I am a National Socialist, you can call me a nazi if you want"(reported in the Daily Reveille, LSU campus newspaper, 1970)?
David Duke: "Ok, well first off lets get some of your facts straight before we go into any further discussion here. The White Youth Alliance was not associated with any national socialist organization. I did picket one time, wore a swastika once in my life. I picketed William Kunstler at Tulane University and thatís the only instance in my life that I ever did that. I wanted to call attention to his tyrannical attitudes and his communist threat to the United States of America. And I never sold Mein Kampf on campus or anything like that. I did at one point refer to myself as a National Socialist. I did that in an article to kind of jog the ideas and the principles of the campus, in order to try to challenge people. I am not a National Socialist; I am not a nazi. But I certainly am a white survivalist. I am not a white supremacist. I believe that whites have a right to survive, a right to live. And I think that if present immigration rates into America, and the present birthrates are certainly going to create a situation where whites will lose their heredity, our heritage, our values in this country."
HW: "So by wearing a Stormtrooper uniform and a swastika and proclaiming yourself to be a National Socialist we should take you at this time in your life not to be a National Socialist."
DD: "Well, it was guerilla theater back then. The 1970ís were a time of the Vietnam War and it was a way to bring controversy and to get issues discussed and to the forefront to the ideas of the people."
HW: "And you currently do not ascribe to a National Socialist philosophy?"
DD: "No, I really donít. I believe in less government, more individual freedom. My entire record for the last 30 years has been devoted to that. In fact, in the legislature I voted for every bill, which would make the government have less power over the lives of individual citizens. I believe in more freedom and more individuality in this country. I am opposed to totalitarianism and I think we are going towards a more totalitarianism type of society. The New World order I think will be very totalitarian."
HW: "After your days at LSU you formed the Louisiana based Knights of the Ku Klux Klan prompted your move away from your nazi sympathies certainly to that of the Klan?"
DD: "Actually I joined the Klan as a very young man of 17 while I was still in High School. I worked with a gentleman by the name of James Lindsey. And at that time I joined the Klan because I became convinced that Whites were losing their rights in this country. That whites faced discrimination in jobs, employment, scholarships. That immigration was going to change America from basically a white country to a third world society. And the only group I saw standing up for white heritage was the Klan. I didnít see the Klan as an illegal organization. In fact the group I was a member of was never charged with an illegal act whatsoever. I saw it as the historic organization of the south, which was lead by former confederate generals and officers and leaders that stopped the excesses of the reconstruction during that period. I saw it as a way to get forth and bring forth the ideas and the issues the American people were concerned about. So, I joined it, I was active in it. And I think during that period I presented a new image of the organization one that talked about the issues confronting the white Americans in this country."
HW: "As Grand Wizard of the Klan you were quoted as saying, "White people donít need a law against rape, but if you fill this room up with your normal black bucks you would because niggers are basically primitive creatures". You also went on to say, "it is the Jew Marxist thatís sees the nigger as their instrument, as their bullets by which to destroy our society"(The Sun, Wichita, Kansas, April 23, 1975). Why do you have such venom for blacks and Jews?"
DD: "Whoever gave you that quote is totally inaccurate. And by the way, practically every speech I have ever made and every public appearance I have ever made has been taped, video recorded and so forth. No one is going to find any tape of me using the word nigger or talking in those kinds of terms. Now I certainly will talk frankly and openly about the fact that there is a problem of black rape of white women in this country. The truth is there are two hundred white women raped in America by a black man for every one black woman raped by whites."
HW: "Even though that belies the Department of Justice statistics which show the predominate amount of rapes are done by whites, in fact 75% of the white women who are raped in this country identify their attacker as being a white male."
DD: "Well first of all, you know, I am talking about the cross race problems of rape. Letís get that straight. I am talking about rape across racial lines and there is no question to me. Obviously there are problems of rape when you have familial type situations and close situations and arguments such as that. But, I am talking about when you have a situation when a person is raped by a stranger in the streets usually that white woman is raped by a black. And in terms of proportions, rape of black women by whites is almost unknown. It is very common in every major city to have black men raping white women. Itís an atrocity and itís a wrong situation. Itís a terrible situation that should not be tolerated in this country. And if it were in reverse, if there were 200 black women raped by white men for every one white woman raped by a black, there would be marches in the streets. You saw a lot of controversy and a lot of attention to so called black church fires, which probably a tiny percentage of white racists started those fires. But if you had a situation of black women being raped by whites this would be in the media across America."
HW: "Do you view the Klan as a terrorist organization or a group fighting for white civil rights?"
DD: "Well, I certainly was no terrorist and I was never charged with any sort of crime against a minority."
HW: "But how do you view the Klan as it is currently manifested?"
DD: "I think people can be a member of a church organization and do something wrong and do a terrorist act or an improper act. A person can be a member of a school organization and do that. I think there have been individual Klan people who have done wrong things. I think for those people who do those kind of illegal acts and call themselves a Klansmen, or any other sort of White activist, I think they are acting immorally and incorrectly. And I think they are acting wrongly and I think they are pretty stupid as well, because they are hurting the cause with these things and this style. Any time a minority or an innocent minority is hurt by a white person of course you get tremendous play in our very liberal leftist media in this country. So really they might think they are advancing the cause but they are just hurting the cause in addition to committing an immoral act. Because I donít think any innocent person should ever be faced with some sort of terrorist act."
HW: "Two weeks ago on the State of Hate, we interviewed Paul Deputy who is the current Grand Dragon of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan realm of Delaware. He advocates, and we have a recording of him advocating, mass extermination of homosexuals and blacks and also Jews in order to create a white homeland here in the United States. Now are you willing to go on record as repudiating those views, as issued by Paul Deputy, in calling for mass exterminations of blacks and Jews?"
DD: "I donít know precisely what he said."
HW: "It is part of the Realm of Delawareís platform"
DD: "I didnít hear what he said, and anybody can stand up and call themselves a Ku Klux Klansman in this country thereís no copyright on that. But certainly if that is what he said, Yes, of course I would repudiate that I donít embrace that view. I donít support that view. In fact, I would condemn that view. The extermination that is taking place, the killing that is taking place is overwhelmingly black against white. Not white against black. That is the reality in our streets and our cities. We all know that, and our schools and our universities, in our cities, our states, itís a terrible plague of black crime thatís swept across this country. And by advocating and saying those kinds of things you are not doing the cause any good, in fact you are making it look like whites are the aggressors in this situation, and whites are not. Whites are the victims of black crime in America."
HW: "In 1980 or around there after you were accused by Klan leader Bill Wilkinson of trying to sell your Klan membership for $35,000. You left the Klan and formed the National Association for the Advancement of White People."
DD: "Well, first offÖ"
HW: "Let me finish the question then you can answer."
DD: "Ok, go ahead."
HW: "NAAWP has as its motto equal rights for all and special privileges for none. The question is what was your intent in starting the NAAWP after you left the Klan?"
DD: "Well first off there was never any deal to sell any Klan. That was a question of bringing forth a new organization that didnít have all the baggage the Klan had. I wanted to deal with the issues of affirmative action, forced busing, immigration. Unfortunately because of the liberal media, and because there are some idiots that would advocate violence and call themselves KKK, and because the public canít differentiate between the groups I decided to go out in a new way. We tried to make it possible for people who wanted to stay in the Klan to do it and those who wanted to go into a new organization could. I started the National Association for the Advancement of White People because I believe in this country we have a National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. We have a NAACP, which stands up and openly works for black interests, for black heritage, black rights, black values, etc. I think white people have that same right. I think we need organizations, whether it is NAAWP or whatever, we need organizations that will stand up for our heritage, our way of life. And we can see that because we are losing our heritage everyday."
HW: "In an interview you were quoted as saying, "There is only one country that is all white and that is Iceland and Iceland is not enough". During your tenure at the NAAWP you advocated what was called the national premiseÖ"
DD: "I did not say that at all, what that wasÖ"
HW: "Again let me finish the question thenÖ"
DD: "No, Iíll explain to the listenersÖ"
HW: "Let me finish the question than you can explain"
HW: "What this national premise was, in fact it was published in your NAAWP newsletter, was the forced segregation of minority groups into specific geographical sections of the US. New Israel for Jews, which would include NY and Long Island, New Africa for Blacks which would be Florida and parts of the southern states. And the White Bastion which would be exclusively for white people made up of the states of Washington, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming and Idaho. Do you still support the white bastion idea of having an all white homeland?"
DD: "I never supported it then. I would not be in favor of giving up any part of Louisiana to an all black nation or Mississippi or Alabama. Again with the propaganda you have been reading about me and my publications the NAAWP news was in fact a magazine a newspaper. We had many different articles and different people would write in and propose different things for this country. It was never the editorial policy or official policy of the NAAWP to advocate such a forced separation. And it certainly was never my position to advocate such. Now, would I like to see a separation of the races in the future? On a voluntary basis I have no problem with that. If blacks want to create their own society on this continent or elsewhere, and I am sure that whites choose to live among themselves, I donít see any problem with that. I think that is probably the best way to solve the problems of racial hate and the feud that we have between races right now."
HW: "So you would encourage a White Bastion idea creating a white homeland in the Northwest, or some section of the United States, in which white people could be with other white people?"
DD: "No, I donít encourage that. I believe that the United States of America is our white homeland and I think it is very possible that maybe some parts of this country that maybe we ought to work out some sort of partition. If blacks want that you know, that is certainly possible. But I am going to make sure that this country is dedicated to the principles of its founding white majority. I donít want to see this country be a third world nation. When whites are in the minority in America we are going to lose the foundation of this country. The same way, if they ever get control of congress, we will have people like Marion Barry leading this country. I mean here is a guy who was caught with a prostitute smoking crack cocaine and he got reelected mayor of our Nationís capitol. Thatís the kind of difference we are going to have in this country if whites become a minority. So I am committed to making sure that whites maintain a majority status in this country. I donít want to see any more non-white immigration. I want to slow that down and as far as the minorities that are here I would work for a voluntary separation. I donít think we should have forced integration of schools. I donít think we should have forced integration of any aspect of society. I think that if blacks want to live in their own neighborhood, go to their own schools, they should have the right. I think that white people also should have the basic human right to associate with people of their own kind. People of their own choice."
HW: "You have been quoted as saying, "If the American people learn that the Holocaust is primarily a historical hoax and/or the greatest holocaust was not against Jews but perpetuated on Christians by Jews". And you also continued and said, "whether or not the holocaust was real, the Jews have a motive for fostering the idea that it occurred. Not only do they have a motive but, they have the means with the media domination they now hold"(Duke letter accompanying, The Crusader, February 1980). With the overwhelming evidence, facts, photographs and testimonies not only the survivors of the holocaust but perpetrators do you still contend that the holocaust never occurred? Or that there is some doubt?"
DD: "Well I think that any great question of history that you can always have questions about certain aspects about history. And I will not say with any sort of determined conviction that there was no holocaust. It depends on how you define holocaust, your definition. If you tell me that many suffered and were killed in pogroms in Europe during the Second World War, than I have to say yes it is certainly a fact. Whether or not 6 million, the number is that high, I might question. Whether or not gas chambers were used extensively to kill Jews, I might question that. And whether or not it was the greatest mass murder of all time I would certainly question that. Because even facts released from the Soviet archives show that the soviets, even by communist historians themselves, have discovered that from the time of Lenin to the time of Stalin and beyond that probably 20 or 30 million people were murdered by the communists. Now who were the people that orchestrated that murder? From the early days of communism, Solzhenitsyn in his book, "Gulag Archipelago Two", shows the six top administrators of soviet death camps; Yavguda, Berman, Frankel and the rest, and most of them were Jewish."
HW: "Meaning what? So what conclusion do you draw from that? That Jews perpetrated the greatest holocaust?"
DD: "Well, yeah, I think there is no question about that fact. That the early days of communism in the Soviet Union were lead by Jews. That most of the leaders in the early days of communism were Jewish and communism was certainly one of the greatest perpetrators of mass murder in the history of the world. This does not mean that I wouldnít condemn the murder of Jews, because I would. Anybody who would attack innocent people, especially women and children, Iíd say thatís got to be condemned, obviously, and looked upon horrifically. But what I am saying is the reason why we get the holocaust every day on our radio and television, in our media, in our book, plays and national magazine articles, is because these were atrocities committed against Jews. The millions and millions of Christians who were massacred in the Soviet Union donít get the same kind of space, donít get the same kind of coverage. Now as far as motive, you mentioned that in terms of what I said years ago. I think there is a motive, I mean Israel has gotten over 50 billion dollars from Germany. Israel has probably gotten at least that much if not more from the United States. And there is no question that the propagation of the holocaust every day in the newspaper, magazine articles and the rest of it has definitely aided Israel in terms of the amount of funds they have received and the support gotten from around the world. Both moral and financial support. So there certainly is a motive for them to make the crimes that were committed against Jews. And I admit there certainly were crimes committed against Jews in the Second World War. But it makes them want to exaggerate and perpetuate that in the conscience of the people almost every day in our society. And we still do that 50 years after the war."
HW: "Recently you have spoken at talks in Tallahassee and Tampa and Cleveland sponsored by the rabidly anti-Semitic National Alliance. The National Alliance is lead by William Pierce who is the author of "The Turner Diaries". William Pierce currently runs the largest neo-nazi organization in the United States. Does your involvement with the National Alliance signal a return to your neo-nazi roots that you had as a student at LSU?"
DD: "I donít have any involvement with the National Alliance. I am not a member of that group. I speak before any right wing organization that speaks about racial conscience for white people, racial identity for white people in the country."
HW: "And you have no problem with the anti-Semitic overtones and the anti-Semitic writings of William Pierce and the National Alliance?"
DD: "Well, again if someone said categorically that we should line up a thousand Jews up against a wall and shoot them, I would have a problem with that. I would not agree with that. I would not support that. If someone said we should line up the people who committed war crimes against the wall, I donít know if the Jews would have a problem with that. And if they were Jewish war criminals I might not have a problem with that. At this point white people are in dire straights, literally, and by the time our white high school students in this country reach retirement age they will literally be a minority in this country. They will be a true minority in America. And the political, social and cultural destiny will be controlled by people not of our heritage. So at this point I will talk before any group, or any organization, or any people that talk about this issue. Because if we lose our majority status in America, we lose America as we know it. I am not going to go into a resume about what these people said on every subject in their lives. I am not doing some sort of research on them. I am speaking for the public in public meetings. I was invited and I certainly spoke."
HW: "So no matter how reprehensible the group, how reprehensible the theology, how reprehensible the views of William Pierce and the National Alliance, which is well documented, you can go to their web page and listen to it, you can do a search on Lexis and find all these answers and other views, no matter how anti-Semitic the views are, youíre willing to go and speak before the National Alliance?"
DD: "Well, let me answer you, I think HateWatch is reprehensible. But, I am speaking because I have an audience before the people of this country. At least I can get some words in edgewise in this conversation. I think that your organization is reprehensible, why donít you talk about the real hate? The hate that goes on against the Palestinian people, the Palestinian people who are forbidden by law, I mean you donít even have a legal marriage between Jews and non-Jews. I am talking about the state of Israel right now that has segregated schools for Jews and Arabs. The state of Israel right now doesnít allow, legally, a marriage between a Jew and an Arab. So I might find HateWatch reprehensible because of your hypocrisy, because your only concern. We have hate movies every day in this country against white people. White people are constantly portrayed as murderers, unspeakably evil and horrible. I mean those are hate films. You have a lot of hate German material. A lot of hate Southern material out every day in this country. And I find that reprehensible. But I will still do an appearance on NBC. I will still do an appearance on your program here, even though I might not agree with the things you put out. I will speak at black colleges as I have in this state and around the country."
HW: "It seems of late that you have taken an inspiration from your racist friend, Don Black of the Stormfront web site and are devoting considerable time to your web page and your Internet presence. How do see the Internet as furthering your white civil right goals, and what are your future plans for your web site?"
DD: "Well, my web site is only going to continue on and talk about some of the basic issues that we donít get in the national media in America. I see the Internet simply as this the Internet allows freedom of speech, true freedom of speech not just politically correct speech, but controversial speech. If we could control freedom of speech in this country on the Internet, if we could restrict people like myself, Don Black, of others. Then obviously in the time of the American Revolution George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, they would have all been suppressed as well. They were considered controversial."
HW: "How were you suppressed when you ran for political office, you had access to the national news, you have been on NBC? You have been on national programs. How is it that you have been suppressed from the media? Explain your point of view that has been documented time and time again in newspapers."
DD: "Let me talk and I will be glad to tell you about constant suppression thereís been many things that have been suppressed. I have done programs before that have even been aired nationally that have been actually shut down before they have seen the light of day. I have actually had high pressure groups go into court to stop the programs. Now as far as suppression is concerned, here is the issue the right in this country is for people to hear every point of view. That doesnít mean what people write about somebodyís point of view. In other words, people have a right to hear what I have to say for myself. Not just the right to hear what Mr. So & So, Mr. Goldman at HateWatch has to say about David Duke. Or writes about David Duke. But actually what I have to say myself. Not even in a debate either but in a fair presentation, a measured presentation of time and effort to present a certain point of view a particular philosophy and attitude."
HW: "In fact, you have had an opportunity to say your point of view. You ran for Governor. You ran for Senator. You ran for President of the United States and were entirely rejected each and every time. You had a fair measured debate"
DD: "Whoah, whoahÖ.let meÖ"
HW: "Let me just finish my question. And what happened was you were on NBC and in the national press and you were rejected."
DD: "One thing at a time, first off I hope you donít edit this out of the tape, weíll find out. I was highly rejected? Well in two statewide elections, two separate elections over a year apart, I received over 60% of the white vote. I didnít get the vote from the people in prison. I didnít get the welfare voters. I got the most educated and the most active people in the state of Louisiana, 60% of the white vote. I only lost because of a massive black block vote. And I got 3 or 4% of the black vote believe it or not. So obviously I donít think that is overwhelming rejection. I got 600,000 votes in one election, 70,000 in another election, over 60% of the white vote in both elections. I won a landslide of the white vote."
HW: "In any political office that you have run for, with the exception of heading the GOP now in St. Tammany Parish. Of those four elections that you ran, how many did you win?"
DD: "Well, I won one election. I won the election for the state legislature. But the point is when you get 60% of the white vote statewide, I donít consider that a rejection. I mean the white people by a landslide wanted me as their Senator. They wanted me as their Governor. I didnít win the votes of the blacks, but that is not being rejected. I expect to be rejected by the black liberals in this country who wonít vote for a republican anyway. In fact most republicans donít get any more than about 5 or 6% which is only a couple of percentages more than I get. Iím not worried about that. The point is thatís not rejection, you know, Iíve not been rejected. Iíve simply been out voted. And that is whatís going in this country. The landslide of white voters wanted David Duke to be United States Senator from this state, wanted David Duke to be the governor from this state. But, the 30% black in this state basically decided who our governor would be. They got their wish; they got the guy they wanted to be Senator, the guy they wanted to be Governor. But, the white people didnít. And that is whatís going on in this country. When whites are a real minority weíll have no influence and it will be a disaster for this country. This country is headed towards a Haiti or whatís going on in South Africa right now, which is terrible. Crime and societal and economic disintegration."
HW: "As I said before you were recently elected to chair the republican of St. Tammany Parish in Louisiana. Besides heading the GOP in this Parish, do you have any other political aspirations?"
DD: "I donít know. I donít have any plans to run for any office. I may never run for another office again. This is a four year position with the republican party. I was elected by the voters here. Iíll have to wait and see what happens. If the right race, at the right time comes up and I think it is a winnable race, I will certainly get involved."
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